Re: Light Fair


"Willy" <wesk@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:A9Y3k.13531$co7.4165@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
"TKM" <noname@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news:3bK3k.35956$102.19398@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

"Willy" <wesk@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:diG3k.7395$uE5.177@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
"Victor Roberts" <xxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:01un441elvt1l5783gt9psgbvaqi4ffm54@xxxxxxxxxx
On Tue, 3 Jun 2008 15:22:39 -0400, "Willy"
<wesk@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

[snip]

I would advise to have better numbers for the products that the
promoted
product is comperting against. "Low 70's" sounds not typical to me
for
CFLs since they they are generally rated 82.

(a incandescent par lamp is 99) whereas the LR6 product is 94,

LLF's home page (http://creelighting.com/index.aspx) says 92.

92 vs. 82 sounds good. Seeing 94 when I hear elsewhere 92 and
seeing
"low 70's" when I widely hear elsewhere 82 makes me sense
exaggeration and
hype.

which equals fabulous color rendering, and a "feel" that is very
similar
to incandescent.
5. No warm up time with LED.
6. The Cree product can be dimmed.

The payback on this product (versus incandescent) is 2.5 - 5 years
depending
on how often it is used... obviously the more you use the product,
the
quicker it will pay for itself.

In comparison, Over the life of the Cree LED product, your colleague
will
still have spent a similar amount of money on compact fluorescents
that
reach their end of life. Assuming a constant cost of $9.00, and
averaging
a
7,000 life for each product, he will purchase 7 CFL'S at a total cost
of
$63.00. Recent tests show most major brand CFL'S typically stop
operating
at 7,000 hours in actual usage (even though many are rated at 10,000
hours)
... (see Consumer Reports Tests last month) And this without even
considering electrical savings which represent an 80% reduction
versus
incandescent, and typically around 20% versus CFL'S.

- Don Klipstein (don@xxxxxxxxx)

Hey Don:

While the current LLF web page (www.llfinc.com) does indeed list 12
watts
and 92CRI, recent tests of the production model (the web info was from
initial lab tests of prototypes) showed a power consumption of 11
watts, and
a CRI of 95. Ultimately the web site will be updated after additional
testing.

The new four inch product web info already lists the CRI at 94.

I personally sat with an engineer and a very sophisticated meter, which
showed Kelvin at 2705, lumens at 685 and CRI at 95.

I can only tell you what I know to be true.

The only LED data I believe is the data published by the DOE
under their CALiPER program or that measured by a truly
independent laboratory using IESNA methods. LED
manufactures have a very bad history regarding publication
of accurate data. (Which is why the DOE set up CALiPER in
the first place.)

--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
To reply via e-mail:
replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.

This information is provided for educational purposes only.
It may not be used in any publication or posted on any Web
site without written permission.



Certainly can't argue your point Vic, but admittedly many of our recent
tests were conducted by the American Lighting Assoc. as well as
government labs in several projects, including the recent tests we did
that shattered the world record in lumens per watt.

So let's hope that in time we'll all see that this product really does
what it says. Like I said, I've sat with a lighting engineer and a high
end meter and I know what I saw with my own eyes, so I feel highly
confident that the color mixing technology we've developed promises a
long term highly efficient lighting source.

Willy

No, as Dir. of Technology for the ALA, I can say that the ALA has never
tested any LED (or any other) lighting product. We don't have facilities
to do that. The LR6 was a winner in the Lighting for Tomorrow Lighting
Fixture Design Competition in 2007. One of the sponsors of that
competition is the ALA. After the competition and before the winners were
announced, the LR6 was tested by the CSA and the DOE to ensure that it
performed as claimed which it did. See:
http://www.lightingfortomorrow.com/2007/index.shtml

Terry McGowan






Thanks so very much for the correct Terry. The person that told me this
obviously misspoke.

At the same time, I think you might agree that CSA and DOE are reliable
and unbiased testing resources???

Willy

Ps... you heading to Dallas next week?

Yes, of course CSA and the DOE/Caliper testing are expected to be unbiased
sources; but it's a bit sad, isn't it that some manufacturers have for so
long and for so often published incorrect data that the only way customers
and specifiers can be assured of correct data is to demand that they be
supplied by independant sources.

Usually, I attend the January Dallas Market, not the June Market and that
will be the case this year; however, the LED testing issue, at least
indirectly, will likely be a hot topic at Market. Both DOE and EPA have now
issued requirements for Energy Star Fixtures using LEDs and
residential/decorative fixture manufacturers prefer the EPA's simpler and
less-expensive approach which doe not require full fixture photometry.

Terry McGowan



.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Light Fair
    ... Like I said, I've sat with a lighting engineer and a high end meter and I know what I saw with my own eyes, so I feel highly confident that the color mixing technology we've developed promises a long term highly efficient lighting source. ... After the competition and before the winners were announced, the LR6 was tested by the CSA and the DOE to ensure that it performed as claimed which it did. ... Usually, I attend the January Dallas Market, not the June Market and that will be the case this year; however, the LED testing issue, at least indirectly, will likely be a hot topic at Market. ... Both DOE and EPA have now issued requirements for Energy Star Fixtures using LEDs and residential/decorative fixture manufacturers prefer the EPA's simpler and less-expensive approach which doe not require full fixture photometry. ...
    (sci.engr.lighting)
  • LED breakthrough may revolutionize lighting
    ... the way for low-cost, high-efficiency lighting. ... LEDs are also ... technique to create LEDs on low-cost, metal-coated silicon wafers, ... nitride, which is used in the sapphire-based blue and green LEDs, ...
    (sci.electronics.basics)
  • Re: Strange Science Sideart
    ... the pictures really don't do justice to the lighting. ... The rest of the lighting is leds ... do the vacuum part, it's important to set the mold up about two inches ... I also put williams flipper mechs with bally coils onto it. ...
    (rec.games.pinball)
  • Re: LED breakthrough may revolutionize lighting
    ... the way for low-cost, high-efficiency lighting. ... LEDs are also ... technique to create LEDs on low-cost, metal-coated silicon wafers, ... nitride, which is used in the sapphire-based blue and green LEDs, ...
    (sci.electronics.basics)
  • Re: Light Fair
    ... The only LED data I believe is the data published by the DOE ... I've sat with a lighting engineer and a high ... No, as Dir. of Technology for the ALA, I can say that the ALA has never ... One of the sponsors of that competition is the ...
    (sci.engr.lighting)