Re: Pozi-cross screws, I hate them

"Newsgroup User" <newsgroups05@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:bZqdnau0Ye-p75fZnZ2dnUVZ_t2dnZ2d@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I think the reason Detroit is loosing ground is the service. I own a
Japaneese car and the wife owns a Ford. Both have had issues and are at
about the same mileage. JD Powers ranks the durability of GM and Ford
within Toyota, Honda, and Nissan (IIRC They are about 5 points difference)


Addressing the JD Powers reports, keep in mind that no one likes to admit
that they have bought a car that is a problem and often small problems are
overlooked to maintain the feeling that his purchase was a good one. He
probably had 3 to 6 years left to pay for the car. Additionally many like
to validate their purchase by answering a questionnaire with answers that
may be a bit biased in favor of the automobile that he chose to purchase.
Few people like to admit that they again passed up buying the 30 years
running dependability of a Japanese vehicle to get the more flashy Detroit
model. Additional brand loyal American car buyers are seeing improvements
in their vehicles and feel that the American automakers deserve extra credit
on the survey.

What is apparent to the customer as being poor service is but not
necessarily all of the dealers fault. Let me explain some of the reasons
below each of your numbered comments below. I know things have changed but
most likely not that much since I was in the automotive business. I was the
Service sales manager and a Parts Department manager for a large Oldsmobile
dealer and a GM for an AC/Delco whole distributor that only sold to GM
dealers in the Houston and SE Texas area in the late 70's through 1995.

The service difference is:

1) I take my car in for an issue and it's fixed. Or if they can't find
the problem, they say "we can't find it, but we tried this - if it doesn't
work, let us know". I had one No Problem Found with this car. Next time I
brought it in, it was "We'll replace xxx as a precaution".

When I worked for the Oldsmobile dealer in the mid 80's we had a Toyota
dealership 1/4 mile away and both facilities were relocations from the down
town area of Houston. Our dealership on average replaced parts under
warranty about 40 times a day. We held on to these parts for the Olds
service rep to review, approve or disapprove and scrap. The Toyota dealer
had about 2 parts per day. The bulk of his business was Customer Pay. Our
biggest single customer was Oldsmobile. Our Customer Pay to warranty repair
ratio was about 60/40 respectively. It was not unusual to write up 100
customers before noon on a Monday morning and we had a weeks worth of work
by Wednesday noon. This is a little known fact but the factory does not
reimburse a dealer for every warranty repair and the dealer foots the
warranty repair bill until the factory issues credit. Toyota and other
better Japanese auto builders simply don't have the number of defects as the
Oldsmobile's did. Oldsmobile was probably in the middle of the pack as far
as Detroit quality was concerned. Not having so much warranty work to do
and having a majority of work being Customer Pay is a direct result of
selling and servicing a quality product. Warranty problems are typically
harder to diagnose than the average run of the mill normal maintenance. A
dealer that has little warranty work and money tied up waiting for credit
from the factory can more easily afford to take a guess and write off the
occasional part to satisfy a customer. Back in the 80's Oldsmobile
determined how many warranty claims to refuse the dealer by how that dealer
compared in number of repairs to the other 4 dealers in the metro area. If
we used 25% more of the same parts than the average of the other dealers
for a particular complaint the rep would find a reason to reject some
claims. Walking into the dealership to review warranty parts he knew up
front how many would be approved.


2) She takes her car in (with me making the appointment and letting them
know exactly how to duplicate the problem), it's NO PROBLEM FOUND. Well,
that's nice, but I don't take time out of our days to call you guys up,
make an appointment, miss some work and be inconvenienced if there's
nothing wrong with my car. At least do something to try to fix it. Don't
just tell me that there's nothing you can do. You can replace something,
adjust something, or take a guess. If nothing else, it makes us feel
better that, yes, it's a tough issue, but you are doing something about
it.

Unfortunately and including the reasons stated above, Oldsmobile kept close
track of which repairs that were being done under warranty on each
automobile. They paid for a particular repair "1" time, correctly diagnosed
or not. If the technician found no problem but went ahead and made a guess
to solve the complaint Oldsmobile would pay for that repair under ideal
repair ratio conditions. If that car came back with the same complaint and
warranty repairs were again made for the same complaint, the factory would
flag that repair for additional authorization and the first repair would
be charged back to the dealer, parts and labor.
That is the #1 reason parts or adjustments were/are simply not done for the
sake of hoping that the problem will be resolved.
Unfortunately that does not help the person that should be of the most
primary concern, the customer.


Case in point - her car has a pretty regular issue on hot starts - most of
the time you really have to crank it to get it to start. And then it
stumbles before it catches. I know it's a tough one, but their answer is:
No codes from the computer, and we couldn't duplicate. Well, you mean to
tell me there's nothing else to check (fuel pressure/pump, coils,
temperature sensors, MAF, MAS Sensors, battery, starter, etc.)?
Something's not working properly and it's your JOB to fix it and know what
to check, not to dismiss our concerns as "we can't find it".

Unfortunately and again because of the above stated reasons and because
Oldsmobile did not pay to check each and every part, that procedure of
checking each and every possible cause on every vehicle that come in for a
warranty repair was not authorized or approved by the factory. Oldsmobile
had a strict order in which to diagnose and if the computer had no codes,
repairs past that point were most often on the dealers time and money.
Remember, if the technician came up with a code on his own to warrant
replacement of a part or make an adjustment, that repair had better be the
final solution or risk the factory charging back that repair, parts and
labor.

Basically, when a company is building a quality product and warranty
problems are few and far in between when compared to the competition the
service department breaths easier, can afford, and gladly goes the extra
mile to please the customer. If the warranty repairs are 40% of your
service business, life in the service department it quite touchy concerning
warranty repairs and trying to insure a minimum of factory charge backs.
Fewer chances are taken by the dealers with Detroit built vehicles.

Keep in mind also that not every technician is great, many are almost genius
but a large percentage of technicians flow from one dealer ship to another
including moving from a foreign car dealer to an American car dealer quite
often.

Why are American car manufacturers so stingy with their warranty
authorizations? IIRC the latest reports are that GM pays, and again IIRC,
about 80% of the profit on every car for employee benefits.


It's not just me - the wife's fed up - her next car Will NOT Be another
American. I don't blame her - mine probably won't either.

I absolutely do not blame you at all.


.

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