Re: Some Thought On Intelligent Design - WAS: OT Is George Bush Drinking?


Tim Daneliuk wrote:
> charlie b wrote:
>
> > Tim Daneliuk wrote:
> >
> >>charlie b wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>If the scientific method is taught in religion and philosophy
> >>>classes and applied in class, maybe then "intelligent design"
> >>>might be discussed in science classes.
> >>
> >>It *is* taught in religion and philosophy classes. Logic is formally a
> >>part of Philosophy, not Mathematics. The Scientific Method is a
> >>discipline rooted in logic and philosophical empiricism (also taught in
> >>religion and philosophy classes). I say this having been educated in one
> >>secular state university, one 'fundamentalist' private college, and
> >>another Catholic private college. The theory of how science acquires
> >>knowlege is of considerable interest to theologians and philosophers ...
> >>at least the ones who taught me.
> >>
> >
> >
> > I'm betting you were taught by Jesuits right?
>
> No. I am not Catholic nor do I have much patience
> for the RC church on lots of different levels
> (social, philosophical, political ...)

No surprise to me, having had a bit of Catholic education
myself.

>
> >
> > One of the arguements the ID folks present is
> > "this organism is extremely complex, too complex
> > to merely just happen by accident. therefore
> > it had to be designed by some intelligent entity".
>
> That is their *conclusion*, but they claim they
> have a Scientific case to make to support that
> conclusion. We may well never know, because
> the Science Establishment today it putting huge
> resistance up (dare I say, with "religious" fervor)
> to avoid having this debate.

Astrologers claim they have a scientific case to make
that planetary motions affect human behaviour. I submit
that it is not at all inapropriate to deny them space
in Astronomy and Psychology Journals even though some
Astorlogers, unlike ALL IDers deny that there is any
metaphysical component or conclusion in their work.

Scientifically, ID is a nonstarter because it presumes,
invokes, or draws conclusions about a metaphysical influence.
Science by its very nature purposefully excludes metaphysical
considerations. Science is a search for physical explanations
for natural phenomena.



>
> > They overlook the billions of years of trial and
> > error that went into how that complexity developed.
> > If there was intelligent designer there wouldn't
> > be a need for multiple iterations of a design to
> > meet a specific environment/set of conditions.
>
> You don't know that. It is entirely possible that
> an intelligent designer incorporated evolutionary
> processes into the development of the Universe.
> It is possible that multiple iterations were
> "created" to make the resulting system "adaptive"
> so that best design wins - a sort of genetic
> algorithm approach.

But that is cetainly NOT what is at issue with the ID.

Any number of scientists who are adherants of religions
that include creation mythology regard natural law as
having been written by God's hand. None-the-less they
recognize that science is the search for understanding of
those laws, not the identification of the author.

....

> >
> > But even with 5 billion years of R&D, we
> > (males) still don't have hair that'll last
> > a lifetime :), at least not me.
>
> That's because we modern humans have the bad
> manners to live long beyond the duration needed
> to reproduce. A truly counter-evolutionary
> behavior.
>

Not so fast. When grandparents assist in the raising of
their grandchildren the parents who are in the prime of life
are freed to expend more of their time on other matters
important to the survival of the species. Thus there
is an evolutionary advantage to long life which may outweigh
the cost in additional resources used to sustain that long
life.

--

FF

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: How Honest a "Science" is Intelligent Design?
    ... Origin is beyond the scope of evolution. ... Science doesn't have to be charitable. ... How about the nuclear scientists that told children to ... You produce your Evolutioner and I'll produce my designer... ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Proposal - a new strategy to counter anti-evolutionists
    ... >> philosophy in the US, ... >>> encourage students to consider the nature of comparative faith and the ... he was a North Carolina State science prof.. ... etc. are complicated and often misunderstood by scientists ...
    (talk.origins)
  • 7 reasons to avoid, at all costs, wasting the price of a ticket to Expelled
    ... Ben Stein's speech to a crowded auditorium in the film was a setup. ... ID and against "big science." ... "exposes the widespread persecution of scientists and educators who ... so there must be a designer; we know there is a designer because this ...
    (uk.philosophy.atheism)
  • Re: 7 reasons to avoid, at all costs, wasting the price of a ticket to Expelled
    ... Ben Stein's speech to a crowded auditorium in the film was a setup. ... ID and against "big science." ... "exposes the widespread persecution of scientists and educators who ... so there must be a designer; we know there is a designer because this ...
    (uk.philosophy.atheism)
  • Re: Hard Sci-fi?
    ... it down with your nonsens philosophy. ... math are never going to be more than a subset of science. ... everything is part of nature. ... some experimental scientists might). ...
    (rec.arts.sf.science)