Re: Three HD Videos On ExposureRoom

Spex wrote:
Smarty wrote:
"David Ruether" <d_ruether@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:gb8iod$1kn$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

"Smarty" <nobody@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:cJOBk.541$Jw.197@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
"David Ruether" <d_ruether@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:gb5o1j$qg4$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I have three HD videos (well, 720x1280 instead of the original
1080x1920, and they went through three layers of changes for
uploading/streaming which degraded them somewhat) on the web
at http://ExposureRoom.com - which look better than they have
a right to look. Even with a high speed connection, you may need
to play them twice to get them into memory for smooth playback.
At the URLs below for each, select the viewing size you want.
The videos are -

"THE CHICAGO BEAN"
http://exposureroom.com/ruether-bean

"PRETTY RHODHODHENDHRONS"
http://exposureroom.com/ruether-rhodos

"SQUARES" (An Animation)
http://exposureroom.com/ruether-squares

--David Ruether

Most enjoyable to watch David and particularly creative work with the "Squares". The Chicago Bean is really quite an extraordinary structure, and you have captured it well. You clearly have mastered the art of Exposure Room encoding, something I have also played with when publishing pictures of my grand-daughter using Exposure Room. Your results look excellent!

Thanks for the comments.

Very minor nit: Both my HV20 and yours both seem a little too hot in the pinkish oranges and I wonder if you have seen this at all in either the flowers or some clothing which shows up in "Pretty Rhodhodhendhrons" or "Bean"? It does not happen with my HF100 and was also not an issue with my earlier Sony HDV cameras. I think the HV-20 is a little off in color balance in this regard.

Smarty

I see it as more of a problem with the limitations of 1-chip camcorders (this
one in particular). The HV20 blows out highlights rather easily (I generally
set both the contrast and exposure bias settings lower for sunny exteriors
[but the contrast at normal for grey weather] and may reduce the exposure
further manually to keep most highlights - and with saturated yellows, oranges,
and reds with detail, I also reduce the saturation bias in sunshine with detailed
subjects [and sometimes also manually reduce exposure] to prevent blocking
up of those color areas. Otherwise, I find the HV20 color balance quite
neutral. In "straight" form, the HV20 picture is generally too light, too contrasty,
and too saturated toward the reds (and pleasantly so in other colors except
skin-tone in sunlight). With adjustment, it is surprisingly good for a 1-chipper,
but it takes WORK to get it right (with many failures). I "pine" for the days of
using the VX2000 which was just about "point-and-shoot" in any light with
any colors once the bias controls were optimally set (and the sound was FAR
simpler to get right than it is with the HV20) - but there is no contest between
good SD and the HV20 picture once that is "trimmed"...
--DR


Not sure I agree with the explanation that a 1 chip camcorder is the culprit, since my Canon 1 chip HF100 AVCHD camcorder which supposedly contains the same sensor and optics as the HV20 does not exhibit the same bias. Both cameras set to default settings look very similar, with the HV20 showing a bit more (as you say) saturation in the reds. This is the basis of my minor nit.

How much control do you have with matrixing in these small cameras? In the XH-A1 one has almost limitless control over the gamma curve and matix and I wondered how much of this filtered down to the compacts?

My (3 chip) VX and TRV900 did not have this tendency, and were a bit easier to deal with in terms of color balance. But I most certainly share your opinion that "there is no contest" once this small imbalance is trimmed.


I definitely prefer the Sony "look" straight out of the box. I think Sony's colour balance is hard to beat and this has been what I've striven for with my XH-A1 setup.

Regrettably, all of the video cameras and camcorders I have used for consumer and prosumer use have the very same limited dynamic range, and blowing out highlights is symptomatic of trying to fit 120+dB of true optical variation into A to D converters, encoders, and sensors with many orders of magnitude less dynamic range. It's hard to get any of this to be nearly as cooperative as film, since grains of silver halide in an emulsion can handle much wider variations. Eventually the world of high dynamic range photography (HDR) will progress from still photographs and Photoshop plugins to also include video and association editing software. Better yet, sensors and electronics with much greater dynamic range will emerge at reasonable costs.

Smarty

The latest CCDs and CMOS chips have incredible latitude compared to my old PD150 and combined with superwhites and the ability to control the knee one can eek out a more "filmic" image than was possible before. If one protects the whites while shooting it is amazing how close to a film look one can get in grading. Only if the whites are protected though as if they're blown then that's irretrievable video look.

We still might be someway off the latitude of film but with cameras like the RED and the newly announced Iknoskop dII RAW are both showing the way forward into the digital "film" era.

RED have canceled/rethought their Scarlet "3k for $3k" camera in response to the SLR boys (Nikon and Canon) moving into video recording. Seems that the game is really hotting up which is going to benefit the camera nuts, me included, over the next couple of years. :)

I should just add,

http://www.usa.canon.com/dlc/controller?act=GetArticleAct&articleID=2086

This is quite simply stunning!!!

I hope Canon support 24P and 25P in either a firmware update or the next version.

Interesting times...
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Three HD Videos On ExposureRoom
    ... I think the HV-20 is a little off in color balance in this regard. ... The HV20 blows out highlights rather easily (I generally ... and reds with detail, I also reduce the saturation bias in sunshine with detailed ... Both cameras set to default settings look very similar, with the HV20 showing a bit more saturation in the reds. ...
    (rec.video.production)
  • Re: Three HD Videos On ExposureRoom
    ... The HV20 blows out highlights rather easily (I generally ... Both cameras set to default settings look very similar, with the HV20 showing a bit more saturation in the reds. ... consumer and prosumer use have the very same limited dynamic range, and blowing out highlights is symptomatic of trying to fit 120+dB of true optical variation into A to D converters, encoders, and sensors with many orders of magnitude less dynamic range. ... Eventually the world of high dynamic range photography will progress from still photographs and Photoshop plugins to also include video and association editing software. ...
    (rec.video.production)
  • Re: Three HD Videos On ExposureRoom
    ... You clearly have mastered the art of Exposure Room encoding, something I have also played with when publishing pictures of my grand-daughter using Exposure Room. ... I think the HV-20 is a little off in color balance in this regard. ... The HV20 blows out highlights rather easily (I generally ... Regrettably, all of the video cameras and camcorders I have used for consumer and prosumer use have the very same limited dynamic range, and blowing out highlights is symptomatic of trying to fit 120+dB of true optical variation into A to D converters, encoders, and sensors with many orders of magnitude less dynamic range. ...
    (rec.video.production)
  • Re: Help with HF100 vs HV20 camcorder
    ... As you have stated, the HF100 is a bit smaller, and the greatest current HF100 drawback is the AVCHD format which is presently difficult to edit and distribute. ... Unlike tape-based HDV cameras like the HV20, it also requires either SD cards or hard disk space to back up your footage. ...
    (rec.video.production)
  • Re: Incredible Canon HV20
    ... HDV in general and the HV20 in particular for a long time here, ... several 3 CCD camcorders and having used broadcast cameras as well, ... the exposure and white balance are faultless. ...
    (rec.video.production)