Re: Editing HV20 HDV Footage


"Smarty" <nobody@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:o_5vj.32354$s33.14984@xxxxxxxxxxx

I really am totally clueless on the subject of saving edited HDV back to tape. I quickly embraced doing my output to either
optical disk (some BluRay but mostly HD DVD) or to hard disks.

I don't trust home-made optical disks for archiving (and HD
storage may not be very secure either...) but I will probably
turn to BluRay for easy display when the prices of burners
and disks drop considerably. For now, multiple copies on
tape will serve me, as they did with Mini-DV...

I have not tried either Adobe or Ulead software in this regard, so I have no real insight to offer here.

Both are fairly straight forward, but both appear to make
a streaming file first (more below...).

Regarding the glitches you have encountered, it is indeed very possible that tape dropouts

And the timecode discontinuity - or maybe especially that...
During editing, I found all the bad frames (they were there,
but damaged by "boxing", etc.).

you experienced could lead to all sorts of problems in Ulead, and I have personally been exclusively using Sony's very best tape
to avoid these issues.

I have bought their $9 tape, but will again try EX, since
so many report no problems with it (or any other tape or
combination of tapes, which is quite surprising).

Unlike DV which has comparatively robust fault tolerance, HDV and mpeg2 encoding stress the MiniDV tape format far more severely.
Even if direct playback in a monitor plays through the dropouts without visible or audible defects showing, the capture / ingest
and editing of HDV absolutely demands very solid data and no dropouts to succeed. It may very well be the reason for the problems
you have been experiencing all long, and very possibly Adobe deals with this better than Ulead.

Yes.

When tape is used for true data storage and recovery (versus HDV), the tape mechanism and the software driver maintain "re-try"
strategies which allow more than one attempt to read a bad block. They also employ error detection and correction methods which
can (sometimes) overcome certain types of errors (using checksums, parity bits, cyclic redundancy techniques, Reed Solomon coding,
etc.). HDV is a whole other story, and small tape imperfections and dropouts are not well detected or corrected. Ulead's software
may also be at fault here. I have learned to rely on freeware capture / ingest of HDV 3 years ago and always bring in .m2t files
directly from the camcorder to a disk file before opening the editor. I especially like HDVSplit since its' dropped frame
indicator does exactly what is needed.

I may try that, or capture with Premiere...

I'll be updating further when my Elements arrives. I continue to like the program quite a bit, but still can't find a better
replacement for Ulead when it comes to fast output to HD DVD. As Frank succinctly indicated, HD DVD output is not necessarily the
wave of the future.........

Both programs output to BluRay, though...

Ulead's overlay track can be used for placing a second clip on the timeline which can be viewed either as superimposed / blended
video, or as just another video source. I hesitate to tout this feature since it really is more intended to add overlays, but it
can effective be another track which can be, in a sense, turned on and off.

Yes, and you can also use the "rubber bands" in PE-4, but you
can also turn off/on a clip using a few key strokes (still not great...),
but you still can't turn off/on the whole track, as you can in CS3
and earlier "fancy" forms of Premiere. I will check into MediaStudio
Pro today and see if it can. For some types of eding, this makes
things easier, especially when multi-track editing.

Ulead's more deluxe editor, which sells for 3 or 4 times the price of VideoStudio, has the full blown multi-track control which
Vegas, FCP, and others offer in that higher price range, so the method I am describing is crippled deliberately in my opinion in
their cheaper $69 Video Studio product.

Smarty

Most likely.
Ah, and now we get down to why I'm still interested in U-11+, sigh! ;-(
All my checks of PE-4's output, even with its recompression, and
with difficult material like water, textured roads and trees moving by
quickly, trees with pans against skies, people moving, panning over
small beach stones and dead leaves, etc., indicated that I would not
have problems with recompression artifacts. Alas, I did. In the PE-4
remake of the video that was edited using U-11+ (which had so
many image problems when using "smart render" or not), all was well
in the video until I hit the hand-held camera moving down a trail with
stones, earth, and leaf details, then the pan/tilts up into the sky filled
with bare trees (and fine branch detail) on the hill beside the trail.
OUCH!!! The artifacts ranged from noise-like to heavy rain. Ugh.
Today I may see if I can import the finished PE-4 file into U-11+
and also the original PE-4 downloaded footage and see if I can cut
the latter into the former where needed and finally output a whole
video without obvious flaws. I d o n' t k n o w, t h o u g h . . . . . !
--
David Ruether
d_ruether@xxxxxxxxxxx
www.donferrario.com/ruether


.

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