Re: Combining video+audio clips ?


"Frank" <frank@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:rpmee3hnmikjnio6rnbkdambaan63u16ur@xxxxxxxxxx
On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 20:53:50 -0700, in 'rec.video.desktop',
in article <Re: Combining video+audio clips ?>,
"RedFox" <somewun@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


"Frank" <frank@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:9t69e3lm2u5pa1cgdu7584ct2vfns42q71@xxxxxxxxxx
On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 20:15:22 GMT, in 'rec.video.desktop',
in article <Re: Combining video+audio clips ?>,
"RedFox" <somewun@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


"Frank" <frank@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:udq5e35e9t889c3b6fmareq79n2fg9344j@xxxxxxxxxx
On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 08:59:11 +0100, in 'rec.video.desktop',
in article <Re: Combining video+audio clips ?>,
Martin Heffels <goofie@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 23:30:33 -0400, Frank
<frank@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

All what Frank said, except....

Have you looked at these files in a hex editor program to
determine
whether or not they're really Apple QuickTime .mov files?

Use G-spot. Much easier to understand than a bunch of hex ;-)
http://www.headbands.com/gspot/

Agreed ( although us old programmers actually *like* "a bunch of
hex"
:) ), and although GSpot is really designed to examine .avi files,
it
will display information about .mov files. I just tried an
AVC/AAC-encoded .mov, for example, and it gave me fairly complete
information. It doesn't determine codec status, however, probably
because it lacks code to determine which QuickTime compatible codecs
are installed on the system.

Apple, however, offers an old program called Dumpster that will
display the internal structure of a .mov file. I would think that if
the files that the OP is trying to play (that the QuickTime Player
program "doesn't recognize as videos") are not really .mov files,
the
Dumpster program would also complain. OTOH, if they really are valid
.mov files, then Dumpster should display their structure.

The Windows version of the Dumpster program can be downloaded for
free
via the following link.




ftp://ftp.apple.com/developer/Quicktime/Windows_Tools/Programmers_Tools/Du
m
p
ster/Dumpster.zip

Just for the record, Microsoft offers a similar free program for
..asf,
.dvr-ms, .wm, .wma, and .wmv files called Windows Media ASF View 9
Series (asfview.exe). Information about the program, as well as a
link
to download it, can be found at the following URL.




http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/forpros/format/asfviewer.asp
x

--
Frank, Independent Consultant, New York, NY

Thank you Frank and Martin for your help.

You're very welcome.

Win2K has SP4 + Rollup installed

Excellent, but I do hope that you visit Windows Update/Microsoft
Update once a month and download and install *all* updates, critical
or not (except for device driver updates, which seem to cause more
problems for people than they fix).

I have an automatic update in place. Regularly it reminds me that there
are
files to update.

Most of us who do extensive multimedia work keep things like Automatic
Updates disabled (turned off) because we don't want any needless
processes running in the background (and possible interrupting us at
an inopportune moment) and instead just manually visit the Windows
Update/Microsoft Update Web site once per month (on the second
Tuesday, which happens to have been yesterday - in fact, updates are
downloading on one of the other systems here as I write this.)

Very good point Frank. That could account for some errors I had while
writing CDs or DVDs. I have no idea how it happened but, at one point in
time, the downloads used to arrive at random times; they would install and
then reboot the box, without even asking. After two of those events I
stopped all the updates for a few weeks and, when I cooled off, I set them
to Download updates for me, but let me choose when to install them .

The process is easy. Just launch Microsoft Internet Explorer (MSIE)
and select the "Windows Update" item on the "Tools" menu. This will
take you to the Windows Update/Microsoft Update Web site where you can
see what updates, if any, are currently available for your system. Of
those updates offered to you, you can check which ones to download and
install.

I have just clicked the option Turn off Automatic Updates. I'll do as you
suggest and just downlaod each month.

I may be wrong about this, but I *think* that the Automatic Updates
facility only notifies you of critical (security-related) updates, and
not all of those many other updates that Microsoft issues from time to
time. The only way to get any of those other updates is to manually
visit the Windows Update/Microsoft Update Web site using the simple
method that I described above.

I went to that Update page on www.update.microsoft.com ........ and clicked
update. It downloaded and installed only one prog, one that was already
waiting with an icon in my systray. My present system is newly rebuilt over
the past few weeks so it is not a surprise that there was no new update
file.

Just as a test, why don't you try it? It will not do any harm.

Completed.

Launch MSIE and select the "Windows Update" item on the "Tools" menu.
Once you're at the site and the page has finished rendering (may take
a few moments depending upon your system's speed), you should see two
buttons - labeled "Express" and "Custom". Click the "Custom" button
and see if you aren't presented with a list of available updates. If
you are presented with such a list, I would recommend that you select
all of them (except for device drivers) for installation.

There were no new progs to update.

The second Tuesday of each month is Microsoft "Patch Tuesday" and
that's when the updates are normally issued.

I used GSpot, as you suggested, and it indicated the files as MPEG-2
video
and AC3 audio but that the AC3 codec was not installed. So you were
right
Frank. That was the reason for no audio......

Okay.

but why is it that I can hear
the audio in the individual files but not when I combine them?

And this is happening in the same program, or in different programs?
Remember, different programs will use different methods to playback
the audio and video streams contained within the file, so what works
in one program may well not work in another.

That's a bit messy but at least I have something working now.

Okay.

VLC and
other progs play both audio and video in the individual clips.

Okay, that's good. VLC comes with a large variety of built-in codecs.
These codecs are only usable within the VLC media player program
itself. They are not usable elsewhere, such as in Windows Media
Player, for example.

Apple products don't concern me too much; it just happened that I had
Quicktime installed. I'm sure there are many more progs for windoze. I
have
many video players already.

For anyone doing extensive multimedia-related work, especially when
they must be in a position to accept files from diverse, sometimes
unknown, sources, having many multimedia player programs, and a large
collection of codecs installed, is sort of a necessity, although I do
not recommend the use of so-called "codec packs". It's usually better
(safer) to install individual codecs on as-needed basis.

Fortunately, I have a narrow range of tasks. The present task is for a
friend. For myself, I am transferring from old records, 8 mm and VHS to
get
everything digitized.

I had AC3 running on an earlier Win2K installation but, although I
have a
lot of AC3 files, I don't see the codec. I have AC3 filter, AC3 ACM
but
no
trace of anything called codec.
It would appear that the AC3 is the problem.

In the Windows world, generally speaking (the Apple QuickTime Player
program and other QuickTime-based applications are an exception to
what follows), audio codecs come in three basic flavors. (Note that
"codec" simply means coder/decoder or compressor/decompressor - old
telco terminology.)

Yes, this is one area that is confusing with different names for the same
things: filter, codec and compressor/decompressor.

Firstly, there are old-style ACM (Audio Compression Manager) codecs.
These usually have a .acm extension and usually reside in the Windows
System directory (C:\WINNT\system32 on most systems). ACM has been
around since the days of Win3.x.

I used that a few years ago when I was actively working at this, then I
went
on to other things and now I'm back again. The old ACM was in a folder
but
not installed because I moved to a different computer. I found an updated
version, installed it, and I guess that is what got the audio going
again.

A second type is the so-called DirectShow codec, which is really a
type of DirectShow filter. (DirectShow is a part of what's called
DirectX, something that you most always want to keep up to date).

DirectShow filters often, but not always, have a .ax file extension
and often, but not always, reside in the Windows System directory
(C:\WINNT\system32 on most systems). DirectShow filters must be
"registered" on the system in order to be used. The register server
program (RegSvr32.exe) program performs this function.

DirectShow filters come in many flavors for performing a variety of
tasks. There are DirectShow filters that act as file readers, file
parsers, demultiplexers, multiplexers, audio decoders, audio encoders,
video encoders, video decoders, overlay providers, color converters,
renderers, splitters, just to name a few of the more commonly found
functions.

That's an impressive array of tasks.

If you want to learn more about DirectShow filters, search around the
Web for a copy of Microsoft's Filter Graph Editor program
(GraphEdt.exe). It will allow you to build and run your own filter
graphs, and give you insight into how the whole process works.

Thank you. I just visited that page - starts with AmCap, which I have used
many times.
Will look into GraphEdt.

DirectShow filters that act as audio or video encoders or as audio or
video decoders are codecs. If audio, they are codecs implemented in
the form of a DirectShow filter instead of in the form of an ACM
codec, but they're still codecs in terms of their basic functionality.

The third major type of audio codec in the Windows world is the
"dedicated codec", for lack of a better term. These codecs typically
are included with a particular application and are tied to that
application; that is, they're not accessible to any other applications
that might happen to be installed on the system. The codecs that are
included with the VideoLAN VLC media player program represent a good
example of this. They can only be used by the VideoLAN VLC media
player program and not by any other applications.

ACM codecs, and DirectShow filters in general (whether audio codecs or
not), can be used by most any application which was written in such a
way as to support ACM codecs and/or DirectShow filters. Windows Media
Player is a fairly good example of this, as it will tend to use any
appropriate DirectShow filters that might happen to be installed on
the system.

I have lots of player programs, fewer good ones for editing.

In a similar fashion, VirtualDub is a good example of a program that
will tend to use any ACM codecs that might happen to be installed on
the system. In fact, VirtualDub will not use DirectShow filters, even
if the only installed codec required to play back a certain media file
happens to be a DirectShow codec. This is why it's often
necessary/desirable to have two different codecs, both of which handle
the same type of audio encoding, simultaneously installed on the
system -- because certain applications will want to use the ACM
version of the codec while other applications will want to use the
DirectShow filter version of the codec.

Interesting. I have used VDub quite a bit.

Also, note that in a case such as this, the two different versions of
the codec, one ACM and one DirectShow, need not have come from the
same source (that is, have been written by the same author/company).
One could have been written by a private individual or individuals, as
are many open source codecs, and the other could have been published
by a large software company.

The situation with video codecs is similar to that for audio codecs,
except that instead of the ACM architecture, we have the VCM (Video
Compression Manager) architecture.

I played around with AC3Filter ACM codec and finally I found that the
group
I had joined with CombiMovie worked fine - both video and audio were very
acceptable. I now have the first group in one 4.3GB file. Three more to
go
:-(

If I had time, I'd cover managing codec conflicts, which occur when
two codecs of the same type (ACM and audio DirectShow or VCM and video
DirectShow) are both installed simultaneously on a given system, but I
don't, so that will have to wait for another day.

You have done very well as it is. Thanks for all your efforts.

You're quite welcome.

I have dnloaded VDubMod Mpeg but have not used it yet. Will try soon.

I'm tempted to say, "Hope that it works for you!", but if you're
dealing with a .mov file, VirtualDub-MPEG2 will not help. Did you ever
try the Dumpster program that I recommended?

I did try Dumpster with MOD files and the same files renamed to MPG - it
always gave the Unknown Atom message.

I thought that you were starting out with Apple QuickTime MOVie (.mov)
files? You originally wrote, "I have a few hundred video+audio clips
that I want to combine. They came from a camcorder and have the
extension .MOV, but Quicktime doesn't recognize them as videos."

That's why I had suggested the Dumpster program. I figured that if the
QuickTime player program didn't recognize the files, it might be
interesting to see what Dumpster had to say about them. Dumpster only
supports .mov files, as far as I know.

The way Dumpster works is that once you've dragged a file onto it, you
have to double-click each of the displayed line items to see further
information, so even if you see the "unknown atom" message at the top
of the list, you should still double-click on everything else to see
what it expands into. If Dumpster is able to display lots of
information for the file, then it's almost certainly a valid .mov
file.

I just dropped one of those files into it, dclicked it, and found one column
with Unknown data on every row. Other columns had alphanumeric characters,
mostly zeroes.

Again, I should stress that if the file came off of a camcorder,
there's a good possibility that the video stream contained within the
file is MPEG-2 encoded. If it is, then the Apple QuickTime player
program, even the $29.99 Pro version, will not be able to play the
file. You'll need Apple's $19.99 QuickTime MPEG-2 Playback Component
in order to play the file.

It is MPEG2, but wierdly had the format .MOD. I had to rename all the files
to MPG and then I was able to join them. GSpot immediately recognized them
as MPEG-2.

Apple - QuickTime - MPEG-2 Playback
http://www.apple.com/quicktime/mpeg2/
Installation of the QuickTime MPEG-2 Playback Component will allow
both the free QuickTime player program, as well as the $29.99
QuickTime Pro player program, to open and play most, but not all,
MPEG-2 encoded files. Installation of the QuickTime MPEG-2 Playback
Component will also allow other QuickTime-compatible applications that
might happen to be installed on the system, such as Squared 5 MPEG
Streamclip, to open and play most, but not all, MPEG-2 encoded files.

I used the version of Quicktime I have 7.1.6. and I tried to open one of the
clips named to MPG. The result was Error -204; the file is not a movie file.
I also visited your link above and
saw what is being offered there. However, I have a large number of players
now that can handle MPG2, like PowerDVD, Nero Showtime, etc That's enough
to keep me happy for the moment :-)

Thanks again and I hope you're enjoying the weekend :-)

It would help if I could get some sleep. :)

RF

--
Frank, Independent Consultant, New York, NY
[Please remove 'nojunkmail.' from address to reply via e-mail.]
Read Frank's thoughts on HDV at http://www.humanvalues.net/hdv/
(also covers AVCHD and XDCAM EX).

Huge thanks Frank for that great review. I have saved it my box for
future
reference.

Now I have the messy problem of renaming all the other .MOD files to
..JPG. I
have a program called Search and Replace but it's incredibly complicated
for
such a simple task like joining.

I think you meant renaming to .mpg, right?

Have a great week :-)

Thank you.

PS, if you have problems sleeping,

No, no. The problem is that I'm always working and don't have time to
sleep. I can assure you that when I'm at it for 24 hours straight, I
have no difficulty whatsoever falling asleep. :)


OK, now I understand.

Thanks again Frank for your patience.

RF



.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Combining video+audio clips ?
    ... Update once a month and download and install *all* updates, ... VLC comes with a large variety of built-in codecs. ... DirectShow filters often, but not always, have a .ax file extension ...
    (rec.video.desktop)
  • Re: Combining video+audio clips ?
    ... whether or not they're really Apple QuickTime .mov files? ... Update once a month and download and install *all* updates, ... VLC comes with a large variety of built-in codecs. ... DirectShow filters often, but not always, have a .ax file extension ...
    (rec.video.desktop)
  • RE: What did I do???
    ... Try going to a site that has all the codecs you could ever need and ... I noticed you are supposed to install the 'rollup update for mce ... > Both errors show up as soon as I try to click anything, such as TV in media ... >> I did several updates last night, ...
    (microsoft.public.windows.mediacenter)
  • Re: xvid to wmv with WME
    ... DirectShow filters used to decode that AVI. ... Install GSpot ... Codecs have filter priorities so even having XVid installed ...
    (microsoft.public.windowsmedia.encoder)
  • Re: Combining video+audio clips ?
    ... the audio and video streams contained within the file, ... VLC comes with a large variety of built-in codecs. ... DirectShow filters often, but not always, have a .ax file extension ... PS, if you have problems sleeping, I have the answer - exercise. ...
    (rec.video.desktop)