Re: over the net? weird situations

I apologize in advance for typing so slow. I dislocated a tendon in my
finger (blocking) and must type with one hand......; )

I am splitting hairs here. The ball was first contacted by the blocker and
before the ball left his hands was contacted by the opponent. I am
requiring the duration of the block is not long enough to be 'prolonged' but
long enough to notice the first contact by the blocker and then secondary
contact by the opponent before the ball leaves the hands of the blocker.

In 1. the simultaneous contact is initiated in the plane, but is continued
past the plane (both players are still in contact with the ball but it is no
longer in the plane) and I now have simultaneous contact not in the plane
which is illegal. I understand the rule about who is assumed to touch it
last. The rules don't seem to account for this case. In plane = legal, not
in plane = not legal. Should the wording in the rules be changed to say
simultaneous contact 'initiated' in the plane is legal? The way it is
written now leads me to think once the ball is out of the plane there should
not be simultaneous contact. (Sorry, I know I am obtuse)



Let's change 2 a little to make it more obvious what I am saying. Team A's
second pass is going about 2 feet above the net (10'), the setter can only
jump 9.8'. Team B's blocker can jump 10' and since the ball is going to
break the plane and no player is in a position to 'play the ball', may
legally block it on team A's side. The setter is going to let the ball go
over, but goes for it at the last minute. The ball is completely on team
A's side and the blocker is coming down on the ball as the setter is coming
up. The blocker first makes contact with the ball at 10' and while it is
still in his hands (a little wrist snap maybe) the setter contacts the ball
at his modest 9.8' and we now have simultaneous contact on team A's side.
You can adjust the numbers to whatever makes you comfortable to convince
yourself that Team A had no play on the ball unless Team B blocks it. So by
definition is it a legal block or illegal simultaneous contact or an over
the net violation?


Maybe my confusion is on the definition of simultaneous contact. It appears
that you define it as two opposing players making contact on the ball at the
same instance. I was taking it to mean anytime two opposing players are
both making contact with the ball. Say you power dink a ball that is in the
plane of the net and push it completely on my side of the net where I stop
the ball with my block between your hand and my hands - completely on my
side of the net. It sounds like you are saying this is not simultaneous
contact because you made first contact and I had second even though we are
both now touching it at the same time. If that is the case, i really missed
the boat!


Thanks for replying and I appreciate your insight. These are the things
that go over and over in my head as I drive home after officiating a match.
Maybe I should have never read the rules. I think I was more confident in
my opinions before I read them. : )


"Roger O" <rozima1@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:29ydnXKwF7qFO3DYnZ2dnUVZ_r-onZ2d@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
"oldsetter" <bump0.set0.spike0@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:w_MFh.3496$yi7.1168@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
USAV rules

1. Say we have a joust over the net and the ball gets pushed out of the
vertical plane and is completely on one teams side of the net. Would
this
be on over-the-net violation due to the simultaneous contact?


If the simultaneous contact occurred while the ball was in the plane, more
power to the joust winner (if the ball lands in-bounds). If the ball lands
out-of-bounds, the joust winner actually loses (as the other side is
deemed to have the impetus in "pushing" the ball out). If the ball remains
in play, then play on!

2. My teams second pass is going to pass about one foot over the net, I
am close to the net where it is passing over me and I am going to let it
go over. A front row player reaches over the net to block the ball and
makes contact on my side. While the ball is still in contact with the
blocker, I reach up and cause simultaneous contact on my side of the net.
(I probably would not have had a play on the ball if the blocker did not
make a play on it.)


If contact is clearly on your side of the net, then this would be an
illegal block.

From your description, it sounds like there are two separate contacts. If
the blocker touched the ball first, then how can this be a simultaneous
contact? Simultaneous contact is defined as two or more players touching
the ball at the SAME moment.

If there is simultaneous contact between the blocker and you are a front
row player, then this would also be an illegal block.

If there is simultaneous contact above the net between the blocker and you
as a back row player, then this is a double fault (illegal blocker &
illegal attacker).

Let's say that the blocker made a legal contact as the ball was in the
plane of the net. If you are a front row player making contact, then play
on. If you are a back row player making contact above the top of the net,
you are an illegal blocker. If you are a back row player making contact
below the top of the net, then play on. Notice that jumping has nothing to
do with where your body contacts the ball above or below the net.

3. My teams 3rd hit is going over the net and is blocked in the plane.
Just after the blocker touches the ball but has not come off his hands
yet, one of my team mates hits the ball and there is simultaneous contact
in the plane. 4th hit or play on?


Again, this is not a simultaneous contact if one player touches the ball
before the opposing team touches.

As long as your team mate was a front row player, this play continues. If
he was a back row player and contact was above the net, he is an illegal
blocker.

If this was a true simultaneous contact, then this is the 4th hit.

I stand to be over-ruled by any other higher authority or Todd. ;)

Hope this helps,

Roger Ozima
USAV National Official

Thanks in advance, and yes I have actually seen or been in these
situations. Assume none of the contacts were prolonged - they were not.









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