Re: Don't tell me Tsonga loses this match

On Jun 5, 10:07 pm, Patrick Kehoe <pke...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Jun 5, 4:34 pm, Shakes <kvcsh...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:



On Jun 5, 4:18 pm, Patrick Kehoe <pke...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Jun 5, 1:25 pm, Shakes <kvcsh...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Jun 5, 1:13 pm, Patrick Kehoe <pke...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Jun 5, 1:07 pm, Shakes <kvcsh...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Jun 5, 1:03 pm, moduli <mathd...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On 2012-06-05, Court_1 <Olympia0...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Jun 5, 3:14 pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Jun 6, 1:01 am, Shakes <kvcsh...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Jun 5, 11:36 am, Court_1 <Olympia0...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Jun 5, 2:19 pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Jun 5, 11:52 pm, Court_1 <Olympia0...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Jun 5, 1:48 pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Jun 5, 11:40 pm, Court_1 <Olympia0...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

LOLLLLLL!  And this is why Tsonga is a CLOWN folks!  How many match
points did he have?

So? That doesn't make him a clown. Djok also won matchpoints against
Fed in the last two USOs. Does that mean Fed is a clown?

Great champions find a way to win even when it seems impossible, like
Djokovic is doing here.
I think Djokovic will win this match now and deservedly so.

That makes no sense. If Djokovic forced Tsonga to lose those MPS by
incredible clutch play, then by definition Tsonga is not a clown.

Oh please! Tsonga is the picture you see when you look up the word
clown in the dictionary. You can sugar coat it any way you wish to,
but he had four match points and had this match in the palm of his
hands and did not capitalize. Djokovic came back from the dead and
fought. THAT is what great champions do. Djokovic is the greater
champion.

Are you trying to channel Ulysses to make up for her absence?

No, that is what I really feel about Tsonga unfortunately.

Speaking of Uly, where is Uly?

How about Berdych ? :-)

I think "clown" is a substitute term Court has begun to use to mean
players not named Federer, Djokovic and Nadal. Makes her sound as
eloquent as, well, whimpy or iceberg.

No, that is not true, I don't think Ferrer or Murray are clowns for
example. For me, Tsonga is a clown, sorry if that does not coincide
with your own beliefs. We can't all agree.

It's reinforced by the 6-1 set in the 5th sadly isn't it?

The problem with Tsonga and Berdych is they play the most risky tennis
at moments when they have to be more restrained and focussed/
disciplined - for example, during BPs.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That's what all out power players tend to do, they go for the big
strikes time and again... their games are all about living on a knife
edge percentage wise...

P

As much as they play risky, big-guy tennis most of the times, they go
for the really low-percentage shots at the big moments, even by their
standards. Like attempting a drop-shot from the baseline, or trying to
hit a return winner etc. So I think that's why they are unable to
convert more of those opportunities.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes... but there's a cardio rationality to it as well... they are BIG
guys... they know over - potentially - 5 sets they cannot have more
than about 15% protracted rallies because they will just fold where
they to do so... thus, they have to go for the outrageous much more
often than I am sure they would like as well, even though their games
are predicated on big, first strike and high risk shots... AND big
hitting is factual (a reality) and psychological (fear of that
reality)... they need to over-produce power wise to keep Feds and
Nadal and Nole from drop shotting them + getting to net on the
percentages + over extending at least 3 rallies per game... without
the FEAR of the big strike, a player like Fed would just cut them to
pieces... so they are sort of 'caught' in that overproduction mode...

P

You are talking about overall match strategy, which is correct. But
you don't have to try and hit a winner off the opponent's serve or try
to hit a drop shot from the baseline when you have time to unload on a
FH/BH, or go for a winner when it's not there on the important points.
Basically, what I am saying is that, even by their standards, they go
for the really "low-percentage" option during such moments.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

And I am saying (while you are correct) you are mixing your tennis
metaphors stylistically to a point that it's just not going to
happen... even little Tippy and Almagro, who play all out power games
fall at the same hurdle you are discribing precisely BECAUSE they are
hardwired to play that way... they are sustained within the game by
playing PAST/against the percentages again and again... it's not
LOGICAL but it's appropiate with respect to playing high risk power
tennis to the extent that they are internally programmed to hit past
or through (going for more than is there or rational) very small
windows repeatedly... that's the nature and reality of their games...
doesn't make it smart or right or wrong... perhaps that's their only
functional way to be at the level they have achieved... no one can
know...

P

Tippy and Almagro are better than Tsonga, Berdych in this regard.
Their problem is the lack of firepower and game itself to win against
the top players. They have to play beyond themselves to win. These
guys (Berdych and Tsonga) have the game (and firepower) to beat the
top guys more often, but they play dumb on the big points
consistently. If your strategy is to win (or lose) points by the 4th
or 5th shot, it's still stupid to try to win it in the 1st shot. And
that's what Tsonga/Berdych try to do.
.

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