Re: OT: Astronomy - we are small

On 18 Apr, 13:46, TT <g...@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
robinson.n...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
On 17 Apr, 23:39, TT <g...@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
robinson.n...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
On 17 Apr, 21:15, TT <g...@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Scott wrote:
Holy shit!  We are small:
http://digg.com/d1ofQT
Astronomy fans probably will like this page.  I find it mind-boggling.
Nice. And we're definitely not alone. Too bad the distances are so long,
or maybe good...
What exactly are you saying? You believe that there is definitely
intelligent life on other planets?
Of course there is, probability for that is certain. Unless you believe
life on earth was created by some deity and it forgot to inhabit other
planets.

Unless you know the probability of intelligent life arising on any
given planet, there is no way you can rationaly make this argument. It
is perfectly feasible for there to be countless trillions of other
planets, but for the Earth to be the only one on which intelligent
life has arisen, if the aforementioned probability is low enough. You
have to remember that the question - "is there intelligent life on
other planets?" will only ever be asked on a planet on which there is
*already* intelligent life. We are necessarily a biased sample.

Yes we are a biased example and if there was only one such planet in
whole universe it would be ironic to use that as an example...which of
course we would.

But I think life is only about atoms and molecules. Imo it would be smug
to assume that these particles and conditions for life would be only met
on one planet in the whole universe.

The validity of an argument is not dependent on how 'smug' it is.
However, if you read my post you will see that my position is not to
assume that we are the only planet matching the preconditions for
life. My position is that we have no idea what the probability of life
occuring is on other planets. I would in fact argue that mine is the
least arrogant position on this subject.


Not to contemplate about other possible forms of life than what is met
on earth...There IS a huge amount of planets that have conditions for
liquid water. They've found ice on Mars recently too...I'd say it would
be fair to assume there is ice and water elsewhere in universe too.


It's not just about whether a planet can support life. What is the
probability of a planet able to support life actually having life
emerge? What is the probability of life on a planet resulting in
intelligent life emerging? These are questions to which there cannot
currently be an answer, hence you cannot be certain that we are not
alone - which is the statement of yours I objected to.

Now you're going to say that liquid water doesn't necessarily mean
life...could be, I don't know. However look at earth and how many
different kind of animals and plants live here. According to this only
example we have so far it would seem that if conditions are correct,
development of many different kinds of lifeforms are likely.


Sure, but that tells us nothing of how likely life is to emerge in the
first place.

Whether these lifeforms are intelligent or not would be a matter of
definition. Maybe humans would not be seen different from earth plants
according to some extraterrestrial life form.

I recommend this short article by the great Marvin Minksy, on this
very subject....

http://web.media.mit.edu/~minsky/papers/AlienIntelligence.html

.

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