Re: Group B - The Group Of Death

On Dec 5, 2:52 pm, FF <FAIRFOOTBALL....@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Dec 5, 11:14 am, Binder Dundat <dun...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Dec 5, 12:45 pm, FF <FAIRFOOTBALL....@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

It is commendable that you want to take on righting the wrongs in the
footballing world-though you energies could be much better spent on
bigger world issues? Not sure why I am bothering myself?

Not sure either.
As for the bigger world issues, that's too lame to answer.









About the 54 final: I'm not about to analyze it now. When I get to it
(and I have a lot of other games to do before it), I'll start by
watching myself the game the best I can, then probably I will come
back to this thread and see what it's about. I only said there are
controversies, which Wikipedia backs. I'm taking their word at least
on the same level as yours and fellow germans' (especially given the
lame way you've conducted yourself in this discussion). Plus, I find
it convincing that at the time powerful interests didn't want Hungary
to win because they were from the soviet block, as I said.

Seriously?
You believe that a country that is fighting to keep the Russians out
of their country, with 1000's of Hungarians dieing and more of them
fleeing the country, would be a less sympathetic winner, then say the
country that invaded and was bombing half of Europe just 10 years
earlier????? If anything the Germans winning the World Cup would have
to be the least "loved" winner of all time? "Powerful interests", (who
ever they might be at that time?) really had a lot more to worry about
then a World Cup winner.

Nice try. The hungarian revolution was 2 years later (else they
probably would have won ;) ). At that moment, the world cup win would
have been a major PR hit for the Soviets. And yes, this outweighed
everything else.


The Hungarians were fighting against Soviet occupation long before 56.


Most of Europe was cleaning up after a devastating war, which is
exactly why the Russians were able to "get away" with creating a
Soviet Union.

Don't get me started about history, OK ? The Soviet Union was created
in 1917 and fought a war against european countries to survive,

That is not really the case, they had revolutions in 1917, the actual
Soviet union became recognized later.

shortly after WW1. You mix things up royally.

Really? I am mixing things up? You should look at a map of Europe from
1918 to 1938

What's true is that they
became a superpower in WW2, only because the US and the west europeans
needed somebody to supply the millions needed to be slaughtered in
order for them to get rid of Nazi Germany. Do yourself a favor and
google up how many russians died in the war, as opposed to how many
from the US, France and England combined.

Everyone is aware of that, but thank you professor history



that, it happened in Switzerland so the germans were practically
hosts,

Sort of like if Ireland hosted a World Cup and the English would
practically be hosts?

I'm not sure the analogy holds, since there is a good bit of
historical animosity between England and Ireland which is not there
for Germany and Switzerland.

and here you were telling me you know history?


and we know very well that back then the hosts were shamefully
favored by the refs.

That was not always the case, how did Uruguay win in Brazil then four
years earlier?

Surprises happened but as a general rule it's true.

Actually, for me just the fact alone that they were injected with
something before the game (which I guess wasn't usual then as it isn't
now, correct me if I'm wrong) is enough to make it dodgy. I don't have
to be reasonably sure that it did happen; they have to make me
reasonably sure it didn't, that's the only way it can work.

I am glad you are not a judge. The way the legal system works in most
countries is that you are innocent before being proven guilty? OK it
is not a perfect system but I do prefer it to the other way around?
Then again I am just a big soft lefty who enjoys granola and herbal
tea.

Right.
This is where you're wrong. We're not in court. I'm not condemning
anybody to prison. For me, the fact that they were injected makes it
dodgy, that's all.

And by injecting the players with something, no matter what, they give me
reason for suspicion which for me is enough. If it was indeed vitamin
C (yeah right; but assume ad absurdum that it was) they were plain
idiots.

When I was younger, I swam competitively for a few years and we were
given dextrose during the swim meets, before races, essentially sweet
tasting sugar tablets, it was quite common, not sure if it helps ( I
dont know if that is just a German thing?), personally I think it is
more of a psychological boost, if anything.

Are you saying it was usual then to inject players with something
before the game ? Yes or no ? Was it even permitted ? Did they have
anti-doping tests ? I guess not.
If they had taken something orally, maybe I could buy it. Even that it
was vitamin C. ;) But injecting, come on.

I do not know? at the time it was probably perceived to be a quicker
more effective way of taking vitamins and medications? Not to mention
you probably did not have Vitamin C tablets like you do today. I
thought you know History so well? Could you go to your local
pharmacist and buy vitamin C tablets after the war? Maybe they only
came in liquid form that had to be injected?


As a football player, taking anything like speed will not transform
you into world beaters. If that was the case, you would sign the 11
fastest sprinters or 11 strongest and most fit players to your team
and that would be enough for you to win. For the most part, good
players who have influenced the games were not the quickest or most
physically fit ( it is not like weightlifting or track), you had
players like Marradonna or Platini, or Socrates for that matter, who
drank and smoked and did not play a robust style, nor were they
particularly quick or fit.

 I would not say about Barca or Spain " hey those guys are so good
because they are so much quicker and fitter". No, they are better
because they have ball skills and are composed and calm on the ball,
if anything, you would want to give your players marijuana before a
game, not amphetamines.

You're besides the point with everything.

No, just not with what you are trying to say.

Sure, the best players
aren't very physical, but you need physical players in order to win.
And Germany's game *was* physical back then as it has always been
(even today with their beautiful new game).

Not true at all. In the 80's they were physical, but that was just a
bad team, for the most part the stories of overtly physical German
teams are made up and believed by people like you, who think they know
everything. Germany were perceived as being sissy girl divers in the
60's and 70's by the Brits for example.



Sports and games are played because the favourites do not always win
and though the world is rife with corruption and unfairness, not
everything is a "conspiracy" or "lie".

No, but most things are, and this one is particularly suspicious.

I have a good conspiracy for you, which I just heard on the radio
today.A Blackberry executive is being held accountable for some riots
or whatever after an unveiling event in Asia ( think it was
Indonesia?). Now you couple that with the Blackberry network going
down a month or so ago,all happening right after the new Apple i phone
was introduced and I think you have a smear campaign against a decent
little Canadian company by a horrible corrupt American firm that wants
to control the world. And what is with the frickin I tunes
scam?!?!??!?!

.

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