Re: EPS announcement



"Tim Jesson" <tim@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:4B391F0E.3080706@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Simon S-B wrote:


"Tim Jesson" <tim@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:4B379C8E.2050509@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Simon S-B wrote:


"GHFAN" <geoffandrews@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:8c96ed61-4d2a-45a3-8c90-e0afa7cc84a9@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On Dec 27, 3:57 am, "Simon S-B" <baitt...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On this seasons performance, the following should be nowhere near either
squad.
Vickery, Thompson, Deacon, Worsley, Tindall, Andy Goode.

On this seasons performance, the following should be shoe-ins for at least a
Saxons spot.
Andy Saul, Jon Clarke, Ashton, Cato, Waldouk, Alex Goode

There's plenty of others but I'm going to stick with that dozen and make a
prediction. I bet all the ones who shouldn't be in are, and all the ones who
should be are not.

Andy Goode is not a good enough player to represent England. He can
kick the ball, but that's it.

Never been a fan of his all through the Leicester years but the guy does have excellent distribution on the gain line and a quick brain. These attributes seem to be missing in JW at the moment.

How selectors would even consider him as an attacking player is beyond
me.

See above.


I suspect we'll see Flood at 10, JW at 12. This gives us a combination that nearly saw Newcastle relegated many years on the trot. England need to start playing a 10 who stands flat, and that's Geraghty, Myler or Flood. Hodgson has blown it too many times for me. Alex Goode is one for the future so I'd like to see him get some Saxons time at least.

Flood or Vesty. Myler is the journeyman in this thread.


More important is the need to acknowledge that in the modern game the tight 5 need to do so much more than they did in Johnnos day. There are some big, mobile ball-playing youngsters coming through, and they need to get some game time. There's no room anymore for the likes of Julian White, Thompson, Vickery, Deacon etc. Mobile ball carriers is the order of the day.

Couldn't agree more. However, you'd have to be stupid to leave White out of the 22.


What gets me most is that throughout the premiership I can see combinations that I think would work well internationally. Each time we wheel out the likes of Tindall, Worsley, Thompson and co, we lose an opportunity to do so. I said this straight after the last world cup, but alas England are still in 'the next game is the only important one' mindset, and seem to be praying that the dregs of 2003 will make the next RWC. The main difference to me is that in SCJs side we had a way of playing, and if someone was good enough they broke in. In MJs side we've yet to work out a style, and we're ignoring good prospects for Leicester journeymen.

Which Leicester journeymen?


Deacon and Goode are the main ones I'm referring to, but Erinle (yes I know 2 are ex-Tigers) and I'm starting to think Hipkiss as well.

By all means get rid of 'em.

I would add some Leicester youngsters to the pot though. Ben Youngs, Geoff Parling, Dan Cole. These are players in form and with some x factor.


Which is exactly my point. Give some of these lads a go, rather than wasting caps on sub-standard players who are deemed 'steady' and good enough for damage limitation.

Players who are dismal form wise and needing special mention: Care, Simpson, Care, Simpson, Care and Simpson. (Just watching the rubbish at Twickenham).


Simpson is well and truly rumbled at the base now isn't he? Needs to work on that. Youngs and Young would both get a look if it were up to me. Got a bit more brain to go with the pace.

Cipriani is pushing for a mention as worst ever kicking performance.

With my red green and white glasses on I can't much past Vesty, Flood, Ellis, Youngs at 9 and 10. OR Vesty 10, JW 12, Flood 13 would be a highly expansive and strong defensive combo.

TJ

Jon Clarke deserves a go IMO. As Andy said if not for injury he'd have loads of caps by now. Hape has gone off the boil a bit this season, but I think that's largely due to playing alongside average 10s and behind a struggling pack. Still feel if Morgan regains some form we should look at Delon playing 13.

The thing is.... there are so few inside backs capable of creating space that when Vesty and Flood are available...

I agree about Hipkiss. He's off the boil.

The comments about Deacon... I don't quite agree. He had a strong game against Australia in the lineout and defence. He often steals ball these days and has done well and is in form for Tigers. Mike obviously doesn't get down to Welford Road much this season. However, he's not in the hunt when there is a fit Shaw around. Plus he's not really a contender with Kennedy, Lawes and Parling all doing the biz for their clubs.

TJ


I think Kennedy and Lawes could work. I can think of another 6 premiership English qualified locks I'd have ahead of Deacon. If I was picking a side 5 years ago from todays players, he'd have been in it (and I think this is the problem with MJ/Wells/Ford). For the modern game, he's simply a bad fit who needs to set about re-inventing himself as a mobile ball-carrying tight 5 player. If Bath can get the likes of Bell and Short playing the offloading game, then it surely isn't beyond the realms of possibility for Deacon who showed half decent hands in his back row cameos a few seasons ago?

The main issue is once more a mindset change. England are still far too confrontational. It must be 6 years since Pablo, Didge, Brent and myself went to see the Calcutta Cup game in Murrayfield, and I spent the night drunkenly moaning about why we are not playing space but looking for contact all the time. When we pick the likes of Worsley and Deacon, you know what's coming and you know what a poor spectacle it's going to be. Yes they'll smash everything in defense, but in attack it's all too easy to contain. Their hand and body positions going into the tackle say to the defenders 'I am going to ground'. They don't need to cover the supporting players, they just concentrate on turning over or slowing down the ball.

Look at the Lions in the summer. They realised quickly the importance of moving the point of contact and reaped benefits from it. England it seems are not a dynamic enough institution to make such changes within 6 years, let alone 6 weeks.

.

Relevant Pages

  • You watch too much poker on TV...
    ... ***Well, you could be patient, and play tighter against her, and wait to ... he was a jackass middle pair playing no odds ... The only way i can think to consistenly beat a field of players who ... you do know how to beat this game!!! ...
    (rec.gambling.poker)
  • Re: You watch too much poker on TV...
    ... I played a little $1/2 for the first time in 2 weeks on Saturday ... he was a jackass middle pair playing no odds ... The only way i can think to consistenly beat a field of players who ... you do know how to beat this game!!! ...
    (rec.gambling.poker)
  • Re: The Decline and (Impending Fall) of the ACBL and Bridge In the U.S.A.
    ... Most bridge students never get to the point where it ... would matter if their opponents were playing Roman or Relay Precision. ... The game is too hard to start playing. ... If you actually talk to the few younger players who play the game, ...
    (rec.games.bridge)
  • Re: How to save VtES?
    ... the game in the first place - that people pick up cards on ebay or from ... suppliments and novels to compliment the game, ... MUCH harder to get new players hooked in. ... Most players came in via playing, or having friends that playthe ...
    (rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad)
  • Re: A great day for sport!
    ... >Like you John I thought Stuart Fielden was fantastic, and Deacon ... >was playing really well before his unfortunate clout. ... On a more general theme I can't say that any of the British players ...
    (rec.sport.rugby.league)