Re: Are referees independent, unbiased & fair?
- From: "viper" <viper@xxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 09:52:03 +1100
"Simon S-B" <baittrap@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
"Charles" <charles@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
The days of referees being amateur gentlemen above and beyond reproach
are perhaps long gone. They are now well paid professionals who are
ambitious and politically motivated.
In consequence, can we trust them to adjudicate rugby union football
fairly and without bias? The evidence, clearly seen in some aspects of
the modern game, would indicate that we can't.
The most obvious and flagrant departure from that position of trust,
is the whimsical application of the put-in to the set scrum. They all
totally ignore the crooked feed for perhaps 99% of the game, and then
perhaps, once only, capriciously blow up for 'not straight' under the
most unexpected circumstances.
That one example, and there are many others, prove that referees
cannot be relied upon to apply the laws diligently and honestly, and
this is having a great influence over the way the game is played and
Because of that deliberate 'blind eye' the traditional skills of set
scrummaging have been totally neglected, and it is a great mystery why
there is still so much difficulty between opposing front rows. The
hooker never strikes the ball (there is no need) yet the props
continue to wrestle for advantage at the put-in.
The ritual 'hand-jiving' before contact is made is totally ridiculous
and un-necessary. The ball shouldn't be put in until the scrum is set
and stationary, so let them get down in their own time and settle
before the ball is fed to the back row and the 'shove' comes on.
And how do we know that the referee is making the right decisions when
he is 'coaching' the players, particularly at the breakdown? He should
let the players make their own decisions, and if they get it wrong -
then he must use his authority and blow his bloody whistle.
There are so many other glaring examples of their misdirection of the
game, which would indicate failings in the areas of trust and honesty,
that it would take many more paragraphs to cover even some of them. My
own observation is that I no longer believe the referee to be 'always
right', notwithstanding that he is the sole arbiter of fact.
Have a great Sunday lads - you know I intend to!! ;o)
In both the games this weekend I heard Barnes and Owens say 'you have to
understand I can't see everything' to the players. The number of cameras
and replays highlight every fault that a ref makes so it's a tough time
for them. Perhaps we should consider letting the ref use the TV to aid in
decisions, such as Becker this weekend dropping a knee. If the assistant
ref sees the incident but the ref does not, maybe the ref should be able
to watch the replay on the big screen before making a decision?
Does not follow. If the AR spots an incident, he is obliged to signal the
referee for at least 5-10 seconds. If the ref does not spot the flag, the AR
obliged to alert the ref at the next stoppage in play. The ref, even at
level , should act on the AR's report. A replay should not be necessary,
the area of foul or dangerous play.
I've said many times before we should have a set-piece ref, an ex-forward
who looks after the scrums and lineouts. Trust me, at scrum time there are
so many things to keep an eye on as a ref that it's pretty easy for a 9 to
wait until you're not looking and feed it.
Don't agree. For any number of effects at scrum time, inevitably there will
only be one or two causes. Set feet, shoulders and the gap. Get that right
and you have the basis for a decent scrum. It's obvious if the CTPE sequence
is not followed, as is not binding square, a long bind, no bind, pushing
the ball is in, loose forwards not binding etc. How can you not see what the
9 is doing, unless you've decided to police the blind side ? Leave that to
I enforce it, and tend to stand
behind the 9 so he can't see where I'm looking. I have caught flankers
giving signals when i look away though. I also saw a few wrong scrum
decisions over the AI's, and don't think an ex-forward would have made
Most ex forwards can't use a knife and fork. Near enough to the hooker's
outside foot is all that's required. Refereeing scrums effectively comes
education and only by reffing a wide variety of games. 5th grade district
will be a shitfight, while elite schoolboys will be trouble free.
We can't keep asking people to judge an area they've never
been involved in. My brother has played rugby for 30 years on the wing,
but he still asks me what is going on in the scrums. A lot of refs i have
met on courses are honest enough to say they just ping whoever looks in
trouble, and we've seen plenty of examples of that mentality in
high-stakes games. It really is time to give a fat boy a whistle.
No, it's time to remind all refs that part of their responsibility is to
game the best posiible chance of 'breathing'. You can't do that if you're
convinced that every scrum should be accompanied by a pedantic check list.
- Re: Are referees independent, unbiased & fair?
- From: simon s-b
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