Re: Eng v Samoa


Brent Hadley wrote:
> Tim Fitzmaurice wrote:
> > On Sun, 27 Nov 2005, Jon.R wrote:
> >
> > > As for the carding incident.....the tackle in the air was a truly brainless,
> > > dangerous and illegal tackle. Could be used as a case study for the reasons
> > > why this type of challenge is outlawed. Cueto could easily have been carried
> > > off on a strecher from that.
> >
> > Its actually one of the difficult ones for a player - I think its a lot
> > more complicated that it looked first time round (the tackle that is not
> > the followup)
> >
> > First the Samoan is diving into the tackle - where in relation he starts
> > to drop as compared to when Cueto leaps is the determining fator in late
> > or not - Now Cueto goes up in what is frankly a bloody dangerous way - His
> > boot is shoved striaght out at the Samoan's face and thats worth a comment
> > or two frankly....jump to prevent a tackle sure (and a lot jump as the
> > tackler commits to look for a penalty these days, its a refs nightmare to
> > call IMO) but shoving a boot out in front and sideways at the potential
> > atackler is a bit iffy in my view.
> >
> > Now things get complicated and actually its a hard choice for a tackler as
> > this tackle demonstrates. The Samoan starts to roll out of the tackle -
> > look at the replay - his right shoulder drops and his arms stop attempting
> > a tackle. Now thats good play - he cant make the tackle tries to stop it.
> > Only in fact he ends up making an even worse mess of it. Having been the
> > jumper and the tackler in this sort of situation myself you are screwed -
> > both of you and jumping into the air is something I only do when I need
> > the height now - its too bloody risky to myself to jump to catch in the
> > air as even if the opponent attempts to stop the tackle the odds are high
> > that the connection will happen and in fact be made worse by the opponents
> > attempt to avoid me.
> >
> > That to me is a reasonable view of what happened - the issue of course is
> > pro players almost certainly know this and could just as easily dive out
> > of the tackle slowly to cause mayhem leaving a refereeing nightmare - how
> > do you seperate the genuine attempt to respond to a jumping tackler from a
> > much more cynical dangerous roll out...a good player can get caught as
> > easily as a violent player and end up with the same disciplinary measures.
>
> Good analysis. I would add that there's been too much knee jerk
> reaction to this dangerous tackle focusing on taking the man in the
> air. The fact that Cueto was jumping to catch a bouncing ball that he
> probably really didn't need to jump for, and that Tuilagi committed to
> the tackle when Cueto was still on the ground and could not have been
> expected to jump for the ball, has been almost totally ignored.

If Tuilagi was 100% committed to the tackle when Cueto was on the
ground and the ball was still in the air then it's a reckless tackle
anyway. Tackling a man without the ball is just as illegal as tackling
somebody in the air. He should have been checking his run slightly so
that he was arriving in the contact area after the ball had arrived and
Cueto was back on the ground, but he chose to just fly in at full tilt
and take the consequences.
>
> Also, there has to be a question about the dangerous play law 10(e)
> regarding tackling a player who's feet are off the ground. Does this
> give players carte blanche to leap about like gazelles so that they
> can't be tackled?

Any player that tries to duck or jump a tackle is putting themselves in
a pretty stupid position - to jump a tackle they'd have to see it
coming by which time they're going to get hit anyway and there's not
much chance of a penalty as the tackler would have already been
committed. Before you claim that that negates my comments above -
jumping a tackle when you already have the ball is completely different
to jumping to take a ball in the air. I haven't been able to get
another look at a video of Cueto to see who actually left the ground
left first - suspect it was about the same time, the difference being
that Cueto was jumping to get the ball and Tuilagi was diving to take
out a player who didn't have the ball.
>
> As regards the way Samoa were treated by the ref, there is a good
> article on the game by Chris Hewett of the Independent. The PI nations
> often seem to get the rough end of the pineapple when it comes to
> refereeing, particularly of foul play.

The PI nations pride themselves on making big hits. To make a big hit
means coming in at full speed and committing early, sometimes before
you actually know exactly where either the player or the ball are going
to be by the time you get there. Hence the high tackles, late tackles,
tackles in the air, etc. Great to watch when it comes off but highly
dangerous at times. That's their style of play - if the refs know
they're going to play like that and are on the lookout for the tackles
that go wrong then they're going to get picked up on it more than a
team that plays slightly less aggressively who may get away with a few
bad tackles.
>
> Cheers
>
> Brent

.

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