Re: Dedruggio thinking about coming back to save England.


William Clark wrote:
> In article <1124826092.382184.181770@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
> huwgareth@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
>
> > William A. T. Clark wrote:
> > > In article <1124812651.601531.8510@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
> > > huwgareth@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> > >
> > > > Uncle Dave wrote:
> > > > > huwgareth@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Both Henson and Williams at least looked good at points on tour, which
> > > > > > more than one can say for Wilkinson, Robinson or Greenwood.
> > > > >
> > > > > I presume you mean those photos of Henson with SCW? Yes, I'd say he
> > > > > looked pretty good then, well, as good as you can with hair like that
> > > > > in a tracksuit. What other points did you have in mind though? When
> > > > > he was out getting pissed? When he was with Ms Church? Singing the
> > > > > Lions anthem? Brushing his teeth?
> > > > >
> > > > > What?
> > > >
> > > > In the game after the first Test he played better than any of
> > > > Wilkinson, Robinson or Greenwood did in the entire tour.
> > > >
> > > > But what point are you trying to make? That the best englishman is
> > > > better than the worst Welshman? If so, I agree with this. I think that
> > > > Moody had a better tour than at least two Welshmen.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The truth is that only a handful of players came through that tour with
> > > > > their reputations intact and they were not, by any means, all "Celts".
> > > > > Indeed, the performances of the Welsh gave us reason to think that
> > > > > maybe the 6N was an aberration and that the sun, which dawned so
> > > > > brightly, will give the rest of the day a miss and scarper down behind
> > > > > a hill as soon as competition starts again in earnest.
> > > >
> > > > On the basis for the 6N, one would predict that the Welsh were better
> > > > than the english but not as good as NZ. That's exactly what the tour
> > > > showed. According to the BBC, hardly a pro-Wales site, the tour ratings
> > > > for the players rated 5.43 for the english, 5.64 for the Irish, 6.5 for
> > > > the Scots and 6.08 for the Welsh.
> > > >
> > >
> > > But here is the real nub of the problem - as long as the "Celts" (i.e.
> > > the Welsh) are busy pointing fingers at everyone else, particularly the
> > > English, there is no chance of the kind of unity a tour party needs to
> > > succeed. It has happened before with the Welsh, and no doubt it will
> > > happen again.
> >
> > The Welsh are only pointing their fingers at the english, not at
> > everyone else. And the Irish and the Scots have been pointing their
> > fingers at the English, too. The problem is with the english vs
> > everyone else, not the Welsh vs everyone else. And I have no doubt that
> > it will happen again - the English caused this dissent on the last
> > Lions tour in 2001, as well.
>
> Oh, so that's alright then, it's just the English.

Good - now we agree.

> I haven't heard any
> complaints from the Irish,

I have.

> and the Scots simply didn't have enough
> players performing at the level necessary to be selected.

I think that they could have had a player or two more in the squad, and
I think that Bulloch deserved a chance in a meaningful match.

> You don't get
> it though, do you? It's not a question of which nation was slighted,
> it's a question of trying to mould a united British Isles team when
> there is all this selfish carping going on. The Welsh clique has been a
> problem on some previous tours, and the same was true here.

Just when, exactly? In 2001 it was english players causing the trouble.
And I didn't hear anything about any Welsh players causing trouble on
this tour. None of them have said anything negative even after the
tour, unlike the 2001 english players who were badmouthing and whining
the whole time.


> >
> > >
> > > Did SCW get selection horribly screwed up for the 1st test? Absolutely,
> > > but having got past that point it is time to step up and perform. None
> > > of Jones (Stephen), Henson, or Williams (or any other Welshman apart
> > > from Ryan Jones and Peel (in parts)) did in the games that really
> > > counted - tests 2 and 3, so quit pointing fingers at everyone else.
> >
> > Henson and Williams only played in one Test. They didn't do well in
> > those tests, but there were plenty of english playing in all of the
> > Tests who did equally badly. Neither Henson nor Williams carry anything
> > like as much responsibility as Wilkinson or Greenwood.
>
> Oh, so now we have to divvy out who really let the side down in what is
> supposed to be a TEAM game. Henson did squat, Williams couldn't tackle
> my beagle, but we have to make sure that it's really all the fault of
> Wilkinson or Greenwood. No it isn't, it's the fault of the TEAM of
> which, as I recall, even your heroes of the red dragon were supposed to
> be part. As long as this chauvinistic bitching goes on, no Lions team
> will ever be able to compete with the SH.

But I think that it is their fault! And I also don't agree that
anything that I writte on usenet is going to significantly affect the
chances of the teams that are playing.

>
> >
> > Unfortunately, the english were responsible for this dire tour, having
> > managed it apallingly and being the Lion's share of the players. If
> > pointing this fact out is "pointing fingers", then so be it. If you
> > want all the control and none of the responsibility, then you're not
> > going to get it.
>
> But there we go - as long as it's all the fault of the English, you can
> trot smugly home to the Valleys and congratulate yourselves. None of it
> was your responsibility. Still, clearly the Welsh will now be invincible
> in the Autumn tests and the 6N, won't they?

Now, how on earth do you get from the english being at fault for the
Lions team to the Welsh being invincible?


>
> William Clark

.

Relevant Pages

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