Re: USC at Grand Challenge

bookie wrote:
On Jul 8, 12:40 am, KC <kc_n...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Mike Sullivan wrote:
It's an interesting postscript to a discussion some of us here in the US
had over the make up of University of Southern California's rowing team
this year.
USC showed up at the San Diego Crew Classic with a boatload of
Estonian national teamers who did not make qualifications to go to Oly
games. Apparently there were eligibility issues, to put it mildly, I
don't
think the Estonians were registered full time students, but were taking
extension classes, no 'admissions' necessary.
They ended up no longer racing in any college races I know of,
raced in the Open category I think at the Classic.
Rules within an institution for joining a competitive 'club' often will
allow faculty, staff, other affiliates to participate, but regatta rules in
the
US will generally prohibit anybody but full time undergrad students
following a normal program of study.
There was nothing about the Grand Challenge entry by USC that
was cheating or untoward, indeed it's a great opportunity to race
for the Estonian rowers, and a couple USC students. I have no doubt
that some wealthy USC alum funded the athletes to come to the US
and row, and funded their trip to Henley. USC Rowing got royally
screwed by Title IX enforcement at that institution, kicked out of the
boathouse they built, and boats sold in the mid 1990s.
However honest it may be to race these athletes in the Grand
Challenge Cup, I find it dishonest to be promoted the way they
do in their website:
http://www.trojannavy.com/latest_news/08henleytrojans.html
What's annoying was this passage:
Only two American universities have succeeded in winning the Grand Challenge
Cup in the last half-century. Harvard University did it in 1959 and 1985
whilst the University of Washington won in 1977.
"The Grand Challenge Cup at Henley Royal Regatta is really the America's Cup
of rowing," said USC Head Coach Gene Kininmonth. "A successful syndicate
requires a lot of funding but a win brings with it a certain cachet. We are
delighted to be in a position to put forth a serious challenge."
The Harvard and Washington crews that won the Grands were
remarkable crews that occupy a special place in rowing history
because of this accomplishment. The top American college crews
typically entered the Grands years ago, but the strength of the
national programs that came in plus the fall off in numbers of entries
had them choose to go to the Ladies in the last dozen years.
USC is not a collegiate crew. They don't go to school there, and
shouldn't be competing as USC.
They could well have competed as Trojan Navy, or some other
locally identifying entity, but to pretend to be a collegiate crew is wrong.
I'm torn. I agree with you on 99% of what you say. I found it really
annoying that the USC mens crew claimed victory at the SDCC (even in the
club/open event), and over UCLA (which while also a club team, is more
of a proper university team) this year.

However, when it comes to the Henley, how is the Trojan Navy's
association with USC any different than the Oxbridge Blue Boats'
association with those universities? I've stated here before what I
think of Oxford and Cambridge Blue crews calling themselves anything
even close to a University team - it's a joke. But if they can do it,
why can't an American university do it on British soil? No harm, no
foul. I'm pretty sure that one of the recent (last 15 years) times OCC
took a boat to Henley they boated one or more guys who had been
ineligible to finish the season and who did not race in the boat at
WIRA. Is that any different?

I do think the Trojan Navy's web site is misleading though.

-KC- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

sorry but i am really confused; what is wrong with the oxford and
cambridge blue boats (and I am assuming you are only referring to the
mens heavyweight crews here and not the other crews) calling
themselves university crews? they are university crews made up
entirely of full time students, not all undergraduate students of
course, but all of them have to be full time students of the
university and full members of a college to be eligible for either
CUBC or OUBC, no exceptions, so what is your problem? or is that they
are bloody good at what they do and train very hard to make themselves
even better which annoys you?

please clarify...

bookie

They are "full time" students in name only. They are full time professional athletes. Guns for hire, many of whom never bother to finish their studies at the University once they are done with the boat race or whatever rowing events they are interested in.

To be clear, I have no "problem" with their skill or prowess as rowing crews. I just feel it's a stretch to call them a university sports team. They row for the university, but they are hardly full time students. The two blue crews are often two of the best crews in the world: assembled from international all-stars. As a fan of rowing, how could I possibly have a problem with that? It's exciting to watch & read about. I just think that the Universities should do away with any pretenses that these are true student-athletes.

In the USA, there are very strict guidelines that athletes must follow (registering for courses that lead to a specific degree, keeping grades up term to term, and showing overall progress toward a degree term to term) else the athlete becomes ineligible to practice, let alone compete.

IIRC from Alistair Potts' explanation (as well as that from close friends of mine who rowed for the women's lightweight university boat at Oxford) by the time anyone at the University realized a rower was completely absent from any courses, and had missed all exams, etc., the rowing year would be over and the rower on a plane back to Germany, Boston, Estonia, or where ever.

What USC here in the states has apparently done is very similar to what Ox & Cam have done for years. So my point was only that if it's okay in the UK for Ox & Cam, then maybe it's okay for a US college to do the same for a UK race. The problem is when that US college brags about their accomplishments back home without fessing up that their boat wasn't a true student-athlete boat.

This all begs the question though: Why don't the blue boats race at Henley? Or maybe they do in non-Oly years?

-KC
.

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