Re: How I decided which new sculls to purchase

On Jun 5, 3:37 pm, paul_v_sm...@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
On Jun 5, 11:08 am, "Mike Sullivan" <s...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:





<paul_v_sm...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

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On Jun 4, 1:24 pm, "Mike Sullivan" <s...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

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On Jun 4, 12:01 pm, "Mike Sullivan" <s...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

<paul_v_sm...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

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On Jun 4, 8:44 am, "Mike Sullivan" <s...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

"Carl Douglas" <c...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

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Mike Sullivan wrote:
"kc" <kc_n...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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snip

Good. And would you have the seat accelerating toward the front stops
or deccelerating? (Let's ignore the fact that the wheels must
accelerate in the first instants of begining to roll. Even though the
moving Mass, reacting against the hull, is already up to speed and the
wheels pretty much begin moving right at the speed already
established. I know some pedants will jump all over that.)

We've had this discussion. I would never coach to deccelerate to
the front stops. I think it's ideal to accelerate to the catch, but I
coach constant slide roll because catch timing is difficult.

(sorry bout attributing, my reader sucks)  above is me.

Yes, we have.  I'm just making sure that you are remaining
consistently inconsistent by thinking that increasing the drag on the
system is "ideal", while stating that would not be desireable,
earlier.

huh?   what I said that a constant hull speed was ideal but not achievable
if you are going to make a boat go fast by rowing.

You're right, I was not clear.  You are encouraging as "ideal" the
speeding up of the hull here, while previously discouraging the "early
acceleration" of the hull due to the increased drag.  I'd say that is
exactly backwards, we want a lot of early acceleration and to minimize
the late (hull acceleration on the recovery), that statement makes
sense to me, whereas your two statements do not when taken together.

I'm still as confused by what you say as you are by what I say.

"Ideal" is a constant hull speed, impossible in a rowing shell by the
nature of the sport.

In my opinion, to make the boat go fastest, you want maximal early
acceleration, (which as you say causes some more check), but that
the additional power added overcomes the inefficiencies.

snip





A typical collegiate novice in an eight will be taught to
attack the catch quickly driving the legs down hard

I thought some more this morning as I was out in an Aero
about what I consider to be the conflict/interplay between the
most efficient rowing, and rowing your boat as fast as you can
make it go.

I think we both agree if we want to make the boat go fastest,
over short term (and assuming we have good catch entry), attack the catch
hard - which you call front loading I believe,  which causes
more stern check,  but adds overall to the speed of the hull
over the stroke.

Making the boat go fastest over short term may not be the fastest way to
race over 2K in a single, though.

2k is "short term", isn't it?  OTOH, I've never thought the Aero was
designed to go fast, especially for the "short term".  It probably is
easier (more efficient than a racing hull) to row slowly, in fact, if
boat builders are to be believed.

No, short term is 30 strokes, 500 meters, might be 2k depending on
boat and the physiology of the athlete.

Aero was just a boat I was rowing that day because the singles were
all gone.



A rowing analogy to help understand this seeming conflict better
might be length in the water.    If I row 1/2 to 3/4 slide in
my 1X with good catches, I will have less stern check than
if I row full slide with good catches (though I admit my full
isn't so full anymore anyway).

No matter how hard and efficiently at 1/2 slide, I'll be faster
at full slide.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Are you sure?  Tufte nearly goes to half slide when in a final sprint
to get ahead.  And I can't count the times that I've seen crews go
faster at "half power" than at "three quarter power", they still seem
to go faster at full power than half but nearly always are
overextending themselves at what they think is "full power" and won't
last the race..

In a final sprint, the physiology and boat speeds are different than
all out
speed, one trades strokes into the water for what would be more
effective with a body at 100%


I'm sure you have tried cutting the finish short, compared to full
length rowing, what sort of difference did you find there?  I've seen
a number of times where it would appear that the arm draw seems to be
a waste of time and the rower may as well get on with the next stroke,
except that it doesn not really cause any harm and does add to the
time of the overall run between catches, perhaps giveing a bit more
rest time for the legs, and save a few strokes in the total count to
cover the course.  I think it was this way that Joe Burk worked his
high ratings to good success, both for himself and later for some of
his college rowers.

Burk finished his arms but didn't swing his body near as much, is
body swing was close to what Adam did with Ratzeburg. BTW, he didn't
coach his Penn boats the way he rowed, but it was not the Conibear
style everybody else did either. As I understand, they rowed similar
to what Harry teaches even now at Harvard. His Penn crews were good,
but when Ted Nash took over they got better.

That reminds me, I've got to go buy a couple copies of Pete Mallory's
book. I think it's an awesome project he's doing.

Mike
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Cox Amplifier That Measures Check
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  • Re: How I decided which new sculls to purchase
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