Re: Cap and Trade, Great Stuff!


"The Hammer" <GaGolfer2009@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:5b92f114-860e-438d-bb6a-eb491c35467c@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On Jun 28, 8:49 pm, "John B." <johnb...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Jun 28, 7:51 pm, The Hammer <GaGolfer2...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:





> On Jun 28, 7:41 pm, "John B." <johnb...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> > On Jun 28, 7:20 pm, The Hammer <GaGolfer2...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> > > On Jun 28, 7:11 pm, "John B." <johnb...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> > > > On Jun 28, 6:03 pm, The Hammer <GaGolfer2...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> > > > > On Jun 28, 4:52 pm, "John B." <johnb...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> > > > > > On Jun 28, 4:24 pm, The Hammer <GaGolfer2...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> > > > > > > On Jun 27, 9:54 pm, Annika1980 <annika1...@xxxxxxx> wrote:

> > > > > > > > On Jun 27, 12:57 am, The Hammer <GaGolfer2...@xxxxxxxxx> > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > I thought the President was not going to tax anyone > > > > > > > > > making under
> > > > > > > > > $250,000.

> > > > > > > > There you go trying to think again. Whatever would give > > > > > > > > you the idea
> > > > > > > > that he wasn't going to tax anyone making under $250K?

> > > > > > > > As for Cap & Trade, I'm against it not because I think it > > > > > > > > will cost me
> > > > > > > > money (thus becoming a tax using your faulty logic), but > > > > > > > > because it
> > > > > > > > still allows the big polluters to pollute if they pay a > > > > > > > > fee to do so.

> > > > > > > > It's like we're trying to clean up a river and we allow > > > > > > > > some idiot to
> > > > > > > > dump all his trash in it if he pays a small fee. How does > > > > > > > > that help
> > > > > > > > clean the river?

> > > > > > > If you want to engage in debate , at least get you facts > > > > > > > straight.
> > > > > > > This is right out of the mouth of the "Messiah": DUH!
> > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------­­­­--------------------------------------
> > > > > > > "I can make a firm pledge. Under my plan, no family making > > > > > > > less than
> > > > > > > $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your > > > > > > > income
> > > > > > > tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not > > > > > > > any of
> > > > > > > your taxes.
> > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------­­­­---------------------------------------

> > > > > > > And if cap and trade is not a defacto tax, then tell us what > > > > > > > it is.
> > > > > > > His apologists,comprising mostly the most marginal and > > > > > > > fringe
> > > > > > > elements of this society, are fixing to having a bigger hole > > > > > > > in their
> > > > > > > pockets than they already have. It is the low wage earners, > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > unskilled and uneducated, that are going to be hurt by this > > > > > > > guy. And
> > > > > > > you keep up with your blind support. What a surprise you > > > > > > > will be in
> > > > > > > for and the rest of us will sit back and say I told you so. > > > > > > > And we
> > > > > > > will hear your chorus : POOR POOR ME, WHY WON'T THE > > > > > > > GOVERNMENT HELP
> > > > > > > POOR POOR ME.! Answer, he couldn't care less about poor , > > > > > > > poor you.
> > > > > > > You took the bait, now live with it sucka!

> > > > > > C&T is not a tax at all. It provides zero revenue to the > > > > > > government.- Hide quoted text -

> > > > > > - Show quoted text -

> > > > > Johnny Boy, spin it all you want. Bottom line is that money will > > > > > be
> > > > > taken from people's pockets, they will have less than before. As > > > > > a
> > > > > result of some government intervention.

> > > > > And if Cap and Trade does have the result of cleaning the > > > > > environment,
> > > > > that is good. I don't mind making my contribution, my lifestyle > > > > > ain't
> > > > > gonna change because of it. What bothers me the most is the > > > > > adverse
> > > > > affect it will have on people already struggling. I have heard > > > > > all
> > > > > kind of numbers, like several hundred to several thousand per > > > > > year.
> > > > > Whatever it is, there are many already that are barely making a > > > > > go of
> > > > > it, sometimes of no fault of their own. These were the people > > > > > that
> > > > > supported Obama so fervently and still do. They are getting > > > > > screwed
> > > > > and can't even see it. And if they do see it, they are so starry > > > > > eyed
> > > > > and possessed they give him a pass. Makes you understand very > > > > > easily
> > > > > how the likes of Hitler get the masses behind them. It just > > > > > takes
> > > > > charisma and good speaking skills, really nothing more than > > > > > that.
> > > > > People want to believe things so badly, they just need a > > > > > charismatic
> > > > > orator to deliver the message and then the message becomes > > > > > truth.
> > > > > It begs the questions, are people stupid because they are poor, > > > > > or are
> > > > > they poor because they are stupid?. In this case, it certainly > > > > > seems
> > > > > to be the latter.

> > > > And what is it in your case?- Hide quoted text -

> > > > - Show quoted text -

> > > Is that the best you can do? Insult instead of the issues. I am
> > > not biting. Let's stick to the issue. You are not an idiot, stop
> > > acting like one. nothing wrong with disagreement on issues.

> > > So please comment.................

> > > What is your opinion on the effect of Cap and Trade on the poor,
> > > unempoyed, elderly, and aged. Don't many of them have enough > > > finacial
> > > issues to deal with already, now there is more? . Isn't this a
> > > betrayal to Obama's most loyal constituency? While Cap and Trade is
> > > not a tax per se, won't you agree from a pocketbook standpoint, it > > > has
> > > the ultimate effect as such?

> > No, I don't agree with that at all. Suppose you explain how C&T is
> > going to hurt poor people.- Hide quoted text -

> > - Show quoted text -

> It is going to hurt poor people because in many parts of the country
> there is still a lot of energy being produced with carbon emissions
> that are viewed as too high.. These providers are going to have to by
> law buy credits (from more efficient providers of energy) in order to
> continue to pollute above specified levels and this will represent a
> cost. This cost will be passed directly to the consumer. And the sad
> thing is, the polluting will still occur, only now the polluter will
> pay a price to do it. So for many people , this cost will just be an
> irritant. But for people already struggling, this is another kick in
> the butt. And the governmment did it to them. Would you not agree
> with this john?

> The whole thing sounds silly and contrived. Can't imagine how they
> will monitor and enforce it. Seems to me there would be a better way
> to do all this.

All speculation on your part. Electric utilities have been using cap
and trade since the early 90s to lower acid-rain causing sulphur
dioxide emissions in accordance with the Clean Air Act Amendments of
1990. Have poor rate-payers been hurt by that to your knowledge? Has
anybody?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Not speculation on my part, but many economists saying it now. I
would be happy to google them and provide links, but that wouldn't
change your mind. Bottom line, time will tell. Can't believe anyone
is going to get a free ride here. Time will tell with all these tax
and spend programs. I see few people being any better off in the next
few years. We are being snowed. And it is not necessarily Obama's
fault, Bush's fault, it is the fault of career politicians, totally
out of touch , obsessed with power, and beholding to special
interests. They all stink. It would be unfair to blame any one
person or administration. Until we wake up, we really deserve what we
get.

==

Time will tell if what you predict happens -- but history has shown that your Bush Tax cuts did not lead to deficit reductions......



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