Re: OT 2nd ammendment INDIVIDUAL right confirmed!

On 4 Jul, 20:53, Jack Hollis <xslee...@xxxxxxx> wrote:

Americans, named Joe or not, have the right to own guns.  

True - but they should not have this right as they cannot be trusted
to use them either competently or in circumstances that could
reasonably be defined as self-defense.

So banning
guns in the US is not going to happen.  End of story.

Again, just because gun ownership is not banned in the U.S does not
make it either ethical or beneficial to U.S society to have such a
liberal policy towards gun ownership. Guns are just far too dangeorus
a device to be available to just anyone who wants one.

And as others have proved, there is a
clear link between the degree of liberalisation of firearms
i.e.availability in a country and the number of firearms offences
committed in that country.

Wrong, no such proof exists.  The are some studies that show a mild
correlation between gun ownership and homicide, but correlation cannot
be used to infer causality.  There are to many examples that disprove
the rule.  As I've said, Switzerland has a very high gun ownership
rate and a very low homicide rate.  

Yet the murder rate in Switzerland *using guns* (ranked 19th per
capita) is much higher than the *overall* murder rate (ranked 56th per
capita) - why is that? Why is the Switzerland murder rate using guns
higher than the overall murder rate? Could it be something to do with
the fact that Switzerland has liberalised gun laws? Hmmmm I
wonder.....

The Swiss homicide rate is lower
than in Britain where gun ownership is very low.  Similarly, Holland,
which has one of the lowest gun ownership rates in Europe has a higher
homicide rate than the Swiss.

You're transparently trying to narrow down the argument to solely
homcide rate when clearly the stats we have been referring to are
homicide rates involving the use of guns - in instances where gun
availability is more liberalised (U.S and Switzerland), the homicide
rate *using guns* is higher than in countries where gun availability
is more limited or outright illegal (Canada and UK).

This clearly shows that the liberal availability of guns results in
more murders using guns - surprisingly - and is therefore a bad idea
and dangerous to society.

Another interesting comparison is Australia and New Zealand.  Both
countries have similar homicide rates, but NZ has almost twice the
number of guns.  In the US, the 500 pound gorilla regarding homicide
is that African Americans are over 7 times more likely that whites to
commit homicide.  

Completely irrelevant to the points of discussion I'm making.

There is absolutely no proof that gun ownership causes higher rates of
homicide, or any other type of violent crime for that matter.  

Give it up Jack. Your obfuscation is embarrassing - it's obvious that
we've been specifically discussing the homicide rate WITH GUNS - and
it's been proved beyond doubt that in countries with more lenient gun
laws, the homicide rate USING GUNS is higher than in countries with
tighter gun control laws.

Stop trying to deny that which is undeniable.

.

Relevant Pages

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  • Re: Gun Crime In Australia
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    (talk.politics.guns)
  • Re: GTA: San Andreas gets AO rating!
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  • Re: Condolences to VA Tech
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  • Re: Handy Dandy
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    (rec.music.dylan)
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