Re: taking our health care back......

On Jul 31, 4:58 pm, The BorgMan <m...@xxxxxx> wrote:
Depends on the degree of offense.

So here's the offense ... the cost of every MS support agreement for
customer's unnecessary labor costs, costs for support, lack of
production by employees due to unnecessary downtime, and lost
productivity. I wonder what the number would be for the past 20 years
or so. Do you know? Please include consultants who recommended MS
solutions knowing that they could rack up unnecessary service dollars,
claim breach of contract by underestimating support hours, and who
purposefully provided limited support terms knowing that they (the
people who do this all the time) could hoodwink customers (who only do
this once, for themselves, and who trusted the experts).

I still occasionally buy Bayer aspirin
and they were instrumental in Holocaust.


Why?

But you look past when they do not adhere to it. That's your
prerogative.

I wouldn't say I look past it, but it's just one thing taken into
consideration.

Apparently you do with Bayer and MS.


It is up to society to provide a regulatory structure to rein in business
practices they feel are unaccpetable. It isn't up to the business.


So you're in favor of more government.

No - generally they're buying what they already have experience with.


And so when they go to a retail store they have an option ... "here's
xyz box with Windows and it costs $500 and here's the same box with
Linux and it costs $300"? No, of course not. They have "here's
windows, windows, windows and if you don't want windows, you still pay
the license for it."

No - they engaged in a lot of tactics I would call morally questionable,
a huge number of which were perfectly legal.


I don't care about the legal ones ... as you said, they engaged in a
"lot" of tactics that were morally questionable ... and they were
found guilty in court of those being illegal.

...and most criminal laws aren't written so ambiguously as to make it
relatively difficult to assess whether or not one is breaking the law.


So you're promoting more government to close all of the loopholes and
remove ambiguity. I hope you're prepped for paying that tab. But
you're probably not ... you're probably in the "I shouldn't have to
pay this" party, right? Great for you ... in an individual way, bad
for long-term viability of society.

...and so you don't hire that guy again and he fails.

...but if you keep hiring him over and over - it ain't his fault, and he
must be providing a service you desire.


You're already in too deep. Most people/businesses say, "well we
already bought *** and it's cost us YYY, we can't change now" ... or
they have some personal kickback involved.

Nope - I'm salaried, and I'm the entire IT department and Electrical
Engineering department. The less support I do, the more fun work I get to
do.

Ah. Very small shop. I see. I was salaried at one time and then
found out that what MS sold us, that was compatible publicly, was not
compatible (I figured this out from my computer background and EE
degree). It cost me many hours because MS was not owning up to the
issue and my employer called into question my technical ability.
Thankfully, I had someone who believed in me and it didn't cost me my
job. Years later, when the documents became public, I showed the
court documents to the guy who stayed with me that I was dead-on about
their sabotage.

Regardless, why do you allow your company to unnecessarily waste
revenue on IT?

Ever looked at the errata *** for the CPU in the computer you're using?


Sure. Most do not matter. But if you're going to say that hardware
drives prices, it contradicts your argument earlier that hardware
doesn't matter.

How long have you been at your current place of employment?

How many versions of Windows and Office have you bought first hand
(either through the company or personally) over the years? How many
did your parents buy?

Or you could review the software before purchase, and then JUST NOT BUY
IT if it doesn't meet your criteria.


Licensing does not work that way. I can review the MS software list
and choose not to buy it ... but if I buy from a retail store, I still
pay the fee. Further, if I'm a business of any size, I basically have
to buy the "assurance," or whatever they call it now, and hope that a
viable option becomes available within the terms or I either over-paid
or have to pay again.

...but there weren't any hardware issues.


Didn't we already determine that hardware was not the limiting factor?

Yep... and if GM hadn't bought up a mass of city bus lines 60 years ago
we'd probably currently have a lot more innovation in public transport...
but probably a lot less in automobiles.

No, the car industry is pretty much the same sh*t, which is why the US
companies are having such a hell of a time now. They extracted as
much profit as they could, following your condoned model and did it
legally, and when it caught up to them they cried, and cried and cried
for government help. There really hasn't been much innovation. A
Model T got how many miles per gallon? A hummer gets how many?

A tech company like MS will do the same but it will take longer as
they extract money from China and elsewhere. And they will end up in
the same boat.

Do I expect to get good care, without double checking the doctors advice
and doing research myself? No.


Bull***. You are dependent on what he tells you ... if it's high ***
in your blood, or cancer ... you don't really know. Some people
cannot tell the difference between a cyst and a cancer lump, but a
doctor today will probably put you into chemo regardless, if for
nothing else, research.

I don't "trust" without verification anyone I'm paying for a service, and
I never assume anyone other than myself has my best interests at heart.


Bull***. You cannot be an expert at everything in your life and even
if you read varying opinions, you're still not there. I read
everything I can whether it be medical, technical, financial,
mechanical, plumbing, framing, etc., and when you see the bull***
these people are pulling (in many, not all cases), you realize that
the greed has taken over and the economy is in the sh*t. I've saved
my wife from recurring migraines that the "experts" could not
solve ... unfortunately, it took time for me to realize that the
"experts" were in your mindset ... not really serving the customer but
only making the most for their own profit. I've done the same with
vet care. I've done the same with my daughter's health. I've tried
to do the same with mechanical advice. I've tried to do the same with
financial advice. But if you're really in it, then you realize that
the greedy SOBs really are only out for themselves and then they
whine, whine, whine, when the tax bill comes or that they have to give
up what they basically preyed upon.

That sits well with you and that's fine.

Well - I fix my own computers, grow a lot of food, shoot a good bit of
animals to eat, do my own car maintenace, do my own plumbing, do my own
electrical work, do my own construction work, do my own taxes, have never
used a financial adviser, fix my own boat, do my own roofing...


You forgot, "and condone and support monopolies and companies who act
unethically."

I see the long term problem as people choosing to be sheep, not the wolf.


Being a wolf doesn't mean that you need to white-collar steal from
people.

They choose the convenience of compatability with the majority.


They don't choose. Choice would mean that they're presented options
by the people they trust. The problem is that the people they trust
are not trustworthy ... they're whores.

I don't.


This isn't about you. Well, I guess it's about your inability to
ascertain right from wrong.

I've seen carpet vendors replace entire floors because it wasn't as
advertised, for no cost to the company. I've seen lemon machines
replaced. I've never seen nor heard of Microsoft fixing problems for
no cost or no support contract. Have you?

Yes, lots of times when I worked at Intel.

And Intel had no support agreement with MS? LOL. Intel was one of
the highest paying johns.

So don't deal with Dell.


Personally, I don't. But the average consumer does. This isn't about
*me*, because while I can be self-sustaining to a certain extent, I
still need to interact with society and rely on society as most do.
To not do so is short-sighted and will fail in the long run. I don't
want to support others, but the reality (welcome to reality) is that
if I want a society there has to be interaction. Until you have your
own armed forces, way to feed your family, roads, medical care, and a
way to earn a living without access to the public, then you're
dependent on others regardless of how much/little you want to argue.

Absolutely and forever.


Glad you condone it. And I'm glad I don't live near you.

I support business doing whatever is legal and within their own ethical
framework.


No, you support liars and cheats and those who can get reduced
sentences even if what they did was wrong. It's the "as long as I get
mine" mentality. Until it affects you and as long as someone else is
paying, you don't care. As soon as it affects you, you're the first
to bitch and complain. You're no different than the guy who
overspends, runs up tons of debt, files for bankruptcy to screws those
who he agreed to pay and rationalizes, "well, it's legal to file for
bankruptcy and not pay my creditors because I can pay a lawyer to get
out." Maybe that's not you personally, but that is what you are
arguing.

.

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