Re: Al Gore and Winston Churchill. No, really.

"Con Reeder" <constance@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote

So, if a skeptical friend hits you with the "saturation argument"
against global warming, here's all you need to say: (a) You'd still
get an increase in greenhouse warming even if the atmosphere were
saturated, because it's the absorption in the thin upper atmosphere
(which is unsaturated) that counts (b) It's not even true that the
atmosphere is actually saturated with respect to absorption by CO2,
(c) Water vapor doesn't overwhelm the effects of CO2 because there's
little water vapor in the high, cold regions from which infrared
escapes, and at the low pressures there water vapor absorption is like
a leaky sieve, which would let a lot more radiation through were it
not for CO2, and (d) These issues were satisfactorily addressed by
physicists 50 years ago, and the necessary physics is included in all
climate models.

Now you run into the other end of the double whammy which has disproven
CO2-based global warming according to Lindzen et al. This is indeed the
prediction of the IPCC model. But it is theoretical and the behavior of
water vapor there is really unknown. If the behavior described existed
you would see the "smoking hotspot" in the mid-equatorial region of the
upper troposhpere. It's not there. There is no strong positive feedback.

If the behavior of other natural forces like the AMO and sunspot minimum
overwhelm the effect of CO2 and the earth cools, as it appears might be
happening, it will become more and more clear that it is nowhere near
as sensitive as the IPCC stated. And if your model can't predict, as this
model has failed to do, you have to throw it out and start all over. They
haven't done that.

I go back to Lord Keynes -- "When the facts change, I change my mind. What
do *you* do?"

The only thing that's been disproved is the amount of global warming.
AGW itself is still a very real thing.

It is real for a total warming of 0.5 degrees C. *Everyone* agrees about
that. It is non-controversial. But the type of runaway global warming
that the AGW proponents have been talking about is different. If it's
a half-degree centigrade, who cares?

Just because it isn't run away doesn't mean it won't increase further.
The saturation argument was shredded.

I don't accept that at all. Their usual claim of "settled science"
impresses me not at all. They have claimed lots of things were settled
including global warming.

I don't accept the anti-AGW crap either. If the arctic ice sheets
go back on the decline you'll be proven full of shit.

The corollary of course is that if they rebound you are proven
full of something too. What that is will be left to the imagination
of the reader.

I'm not the one making positive assertions, other than the fact
that your positive assertions back you into a corner.

I don't claim to know. People like you who do are wrong.

--Tedward


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