Re: social vs. economic liberals

On Apr 14, 11:27 pm, "Randolph M. Jones" <rjo...@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Ben Stewart wrote:
On Apr 14, 12:20 pm, Tom Enright <freddy_ha...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Apr 14, 12:28 pm, Ben Stewart <benjstew...@xxxxxxx> wrote:

I'm not sure where I fall on the spectrum...
I am a social liberal but in more of a libertarian sort of way. I just
don't believe it's the government's business to decide waht consenting
adults do as long as they aren't hurting anyone else. I hate pork
projects and I love the idea of a line item veto to carve it out.
I also live in the Midwest, but I don't care if GM or Chrysler fail.
They are reaping the results of years of shortsightedness, bad
management and a suicidal union environment.
However, I do get fully pissed off at companies that --despite being
profitable -- still move factories and call centers are all those jobs
overseas just so they can make even more money. CEOs make millions in
bonuses, but none of that saved $$ ever seems to make it back to any
of frontline employees who managed to survive all those cuts... and
I'm not referring to $60/hr frontline people -- I'm referring to the
$10-$15/hr people who live paycheck to paycheck.
I know what you mean, but don't you see the conflict of criticising
companies for "short-sightedness" while at the same time criticising
them for taking advantage of improvements in cost, efficiency and
avoiding the unions?

As I stated in my original post, I'm not sure where I fall on the
fiscal political spectrum...

I love finding better and cheaper ways to do things, but I absolutely
disagree with the outsourcing of american jobs. If you work in an
office, there is always going to be someone -- somewhere in the world
-- who is willing to do your job for less money than you. Your company
just hasn't found them yet.

GM and Chrysler are a different animal... They have painted themselves
into a corner with weak product lines and legacy costs that are
killing them. Both the UAW and management are to blame.

Presumably you don't like outsourcing of "American" jobs because you see
that as doing harm to some Americans.  But if the outsourcing is leading
to cheaper goods for Americans to buy, then aren't you possibly doing
harm to even more Americans by *not* outsourcing?

Yes. cheaper foreign labor when combined with low trade barriers=
cheap goods at your local walmart, which benefits everyone.

Or just about everyone. If you are someone who loses your job to the
cheap foreign labor, then of course your wage losses likely exceed the
benefits from price reductions. But you will be a clear minority. For
most, it's a benefit. The winners in America will usually far
outnumber the losers.

paul samuelson has written a critique of the "benefits of trade
outweigh the costs" argument, but what it boils down to is saying that
theoretically, the benefits don't always *necessarily* have to
outweigh the costs, which IMO isn't saying all that much, because few
things in economics are always or necessarily true, and even he admits
that so far, America has in reality benefited far more than have beeen
harmed by freer trade.

.

Relevant Pages

  • The Great American Job Sellout
    ... Americans are being sold out on the jobs front. ... opportunities are declining as a result of corporate outsourcing of US ... During this extraordinary breakdown in the American employment ...
    (sci.econ)
  • Re: How are you of value to the company? (Re: If you dont like it, THEN LEAVE)
    ... Americans are being sold out on the jobs front. ... opportunities are declining as a result of corporate outsourcing of US ... US economy than when Bush was first inaugurated in January 2001. ...
    (soc.culture.filipino)
  • Re: Paul Krugman: No more illegal immigrants
    ... Or are you saying that you know more than Krugman on this issue? ... a good proxy for how big the labor pool, only 3 million to fill the 10 million jobs now done by immigrants. ... If they were removed, many of those low skilled jobs would disappear, but we would be saved the welfare costs because they would no longer be in this country receiving services. ... Assuming Krugman is correct, we shouldn't be forcing more expensive automation by kicking out all of the 10 million (we know from the BLS data, there aren't enough low-skilled Americans to fill all those jobs - only about 3 million). ...
    (soc.retirement)
  • Re: social vs. economic liberals
    ... disagree with the outsourcing of american jobs. ... Both the UAW and management are to blame. ... Presumably you don't like outsourcing of "American" jobs because you see ... that as doing harm to some Americans. ...
    (rec.sport.football.college)
  • Re: EXPORTING AMERICA
    ... A finance professor argues against placing blind faith in outsourcing. ... A great deal of effort is being expended to convince us all that the outsourcing of jobs under ... Our trading problem is an externality ... river and the downstream residents incur the costs of cancer. ...
    (microsoft.public.frontpage.client)