Re: Hope Nobody Here Has CIGNA Healthcare

On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 16:52:13 -0800 (PST), mianderson
<clayabc@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Dec 24, 12:05 am, James Schrumpf
<jaspammenotschru...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Quiet, Dan Bretta <nuda...@xxxxxxxxx> -- I'm transmitting rage.
On Dec 23, 10:46 pm, James Schrumpf
<jaspammenotschru...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Quiet, "David V. Loewe, Jr" <davelo...@xxxxxxxxxxx> -- I'm
transmitting rage.
On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 20:45:11 -0600, James Schrumpf
<jaspammenotschru...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Quiet, "David V. Loewe, Jr" <davelo...@xxxxxxxxxxx> -- I'm
transmitting rage.
On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 19:50:57 -0600, James Schrumpf
<jaspammenotschru...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Quiet,mianderson<clay...@xxxxxxxxxx> -- I'm transmitting rage.
On Dec 23, 8:20 pm, Dan Bretta <nuda...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Dec 23, 7:07 pm, "David V. Loewe, Jr"
<davelo...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 16:22:24 -0800 (PST), Dan Bretta
<nuda...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I did no such thing....

Looking back, you are correct, that was "Zaphod Beeblebrox."
 My bad.

Why can't these rsfckers just use their real names like you
and I do?

<aside>

Eh, Victor?  Bill got rid of "frisbee."  Come out of the
closet.

</aside>

I think you got your attributions wrong.

No, the attributions were fine.  Agent did it's job, I just
didn't do mine in reading them properly.

Now, do you have nay response to my comments on YOUR
comments, Dan?

Well obviously if anyone knows about govt healthcare it would
be you, but I'm not saying that socialized medicine is
necessarily the best system....I'm certain though that a
doctor is more equipped to make medical decisions than Joe
Cigna is.

physicians(at least physicians have told me this) take far
different approaches wrt these type of issues.  Some would want
to "do whatever it takes" to help their patients, even if it's
a high 6 figure investment with little chance for long term
payoff. Others feel a need to make decisions with some
reflection on how to best use available health care
$'s.......the fact of the matter is everyone with some payer
source and liver failure cant get a transplant.....for lots of
reasons.

This is just the tip of a future iceberg.  Her own lawyers say
she had a "65% chance over six months that she would survive",
which doesn't strike me as all that great, but I know nothing
about transplant survival rates.

Nor do I know how much this transplant would have cost, nor how
hard it is to get a liver for transplant in the first place.  But
it seems to me the time is not far away when a kind of triage
takes place that says in effect, "You may be first in line, but
your chances of survival are much smaller that the next person's,
so why give the good liver to someone who is likely to die anyway
when this other person has twice the chance of surviving."

Or words to that effect.

We have car insurance too, but there comes a time when it's
declared a total loss and we get the "life insurance" payoff.
How much longer till the same thing happens with people?

However, did the family get what they contracted and paid for?

It's hard to tell from the article, but HMOs and the like always
have final say on what treatments a patient gets.  You're not
really "contracting" for anything other than initial examinations
by a primary care physician; everything after that is a "referral."

If I were to contract for "full major medical," wouldn't that
indicate that a transplant was to be paid for if the doctors
thought it was called for?

If that's what they had.  Cigna does HMOs too, which means the
insurance company ultimately decides what procedures get done.  It's
not always like Blue Cross major medical.

Awesome!  I place all my trust in the insurance company knowing more
than the doctor!!!  What a country!

Dan

Yer missing the point.  Not that I'm defending Cigna's decision, but
they don't make these decisions because they think they know medicine
more than the doctor does, they make them based on what the docs say
about survival rates.

The doc is following his Hippocratic oath, which tells him to do
whatever he can to save the patient's life.  Have you ever heard of a
doctor saying "Your chances are only 1 in 10 of survial... I'm not going
to do the procedure"?

Never gonna happen.  But that's when the insurance companies step in
because, to be honest, every $1 mil procedure that gets done is one that
won't get done for someone else.  There's only so much money in an
insurance company, and if patient A has a 1 in 10 chance and patient B
has a 1-3 chance... well, you make the call.

People seem to think that there is an unlimited pot of gold that
insurance companies have to pay doctors and hospitals for procedures.
It's a business, and businesses don't have magic pots of gold.

If you're paying for major medical, then yes, you've contracted for it.

um, no you haven't. People who take out "major medical" only policies
would be less likely to get a procedure done like the one being
discussed than someone who is fully covered under an hmo/ppo.

When I say "Major Medical," I'm talking the style of health care
coverage discussed in Frederik Pohl's Gateway where "Major Medical"
meant that everything under the sun and then some was covered.

If you're on an HMO you haven't, and you're taking your chances on big
procedures.
--
"Senator, America has the best health care in the world, but people still
die from cancer and heart disease. The best isn't always good enough,
is it?"
Secretary of Defense designee Tony Bretano in Executive Orders
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Hope Nobody Here Has CIGNA Healthcare
    ... doctor is more equipped to make medical decisions than Joe ... she had a "65% chance over six months that she would survive", ... when this other person has twice the chance of surviving." ... insurance company, and if patient A has a 1 in 10 chance and patient B ...
    (rec.sport.football.college)
  • Re: Hope Nobody Here Has CIGNA Healthcare
    ... doctor is more equipped to make medical decisions than Joe ... she had a "65% chance over six months that she would survive", ... when this other person has twice the chance of surviving." ... insurance company, and if patient A has a 1 in 10 chance and patient B ...
    (rec.sport.football.college)
  • Re: Hope Nobody Here Has CIGNA Healthcare
    ... doctor is more equipped to make medical decisions than Joe ... she had a "65% chance over six months that she would survive", ... when this other person has twice the chance of surviving." ... insurance company ultimately decides what procedures get done. ...
    (rec.sport.football.college)
  • Re: Hope Nobody Here Has CIGNA Healthcare
    ... doctor is more equipped to make medical decisions than Joe ... she had a "65% chance over six months that she would survive", ... when this other person has twice the chance of surviving." ... insurance company, and if patient A has a 1 in 10 chance and patient B ...
    (rec.sport.football.college)
  • Re: Hope Nobody Here Has CIGNA Healthcare
    ... doctor is more equipped to make medical decisions than Joe ... she had a "65% chance over six months that she would survive", ... when this other person has twice the chance of surviving." ... insurance company ultimately decides what procedures get done. ...
    (rec.sport.football.college)
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