Re: Hamas memochat


Matthew Hennig wrote:
> mianderson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote in
> news:1138468763.738832.186810@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx:
>
> >
> > Matthew Hennig wrote:
> >>
> >> > But let's even toss that argument aside......it's 1967. Perhaps
> >> > people can disagree over whether quotas/AA have a place in today's
> >> > academic world, but certainly they did in 1967. And even if CAP
> >> > was only going that far(which again some disagree with), I still
> >> > think that's pretty radical. Opposing AA in 2005 is much different
> >> > than opposing AA in 1967.
> >>
> >> The idea of being admitted on merit and not to help meet any racial
> >> quotas is a radical idea???
> >
> > from an educational standpoint in 1967, I think so.
>
> From an educational standpoint at any time. You make the grades, you
> get admitted.
> > >> I don't care if its 2006, 1967, or 1532, the idea that someone can be
> >> let in by reducing ones standards is a bad one.
> >
> > At that time(the 60's) Princeton was enrolling a lot of white southern
> > men. Of course during this time high schools in the south were still
> > segregated. How in the world were AA's in the 60's suppose to compete
> > for slots on equal terms under those conditions?
>
> Giving preference to legacies, thats something you could have a
> legitimate argument with as to how much weight that would carry. But
> for a school to lower its academic requirements just for the sake of
> having some black students is foolish.
> > If a black student was
> >> equally qualified under the rules as a white student and then the
> >> white student was picked solely due to race, you would have a
> >> legitimate complaint. If a black student was less qualified and
> >> would not meed the standards to get in based on grades or other
> >> similar prereqs, lowering your acceptance standards to meet a quota
> >> is a bad policy.
> >
> > I think you can make that argument *today*. It's one I don't agree
> > with but it's feasible. But at a time in which blacks in many areas
> > of the country couldn't even go to high school with their white peers?
>
> The crux of the argument is the academic standards. If the academic
> standards are lowered to let a minority in, isn't that basically telling
> the minority that they aren't good enough, but they were made a sort of
> pity case to get in?

So why should blacks in 1967 be forced to compete on equal terms with
whites in terms of securing college admission when whites wouldn't
allow blacks equal access to education in grades k-12? That's the
question.........is that fair?

Talk about a slap in the face. I wonder how all
> these students that were let in with subpar academics actually did. I
> remember back when I was applying for med school, it was in the
> pre-Hopwood days of affirmative action. They said that a large majority
> of the minority students admitted to medical school under that plan
> ended up failing out.

'they said'. You know there are statistics on this stuff Matt. And
'they said' I'm sure in that case turned out wrong. Hint: why don't
you try looking up Howard's, Meharry's, and Morehouse's step 1 and step
2 pass rates. They are actually higher(the pass rate, not the mean)
than a lot of schools with mcat averages > 30. Then look at how many
people they(traditionally URM med schools) admit each year and compare
it to their graduating class. Ooops....looks like the rel ratio is
between .85 and 1.0 at all the schools.


Was it a good thing, then, to lower the standards
> and get someone that might not have been able to handle the workload
> given to them?

Except they do handle the workload. Are they going to match derm at
UCSF? No, but who cares? > 90% admitted under URM status make it
through, pass their liscencing exams, match, finish their traning and
end up practicing. You know that's the case......


>
> MH
>
> --
> Ten of Spades
> Aggee Fedayeen Chief
> Supreme Ruler of the Obvious
>
> "We just got outplayed today. That's the bottom line. And we got
> outcoached."
> - OU Head Coach Bob Stoops following the Texas A&M game, Nov 9, 2002

.

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