Re: Ohio State--ND in polls


Jyrki Lahtonen wrote:
> walstib77 wrote:
>
> >
> > The point was that pollsters are indeed dumbfucks, and also that ND
> > always gets a pass.
> >
>
> I agree with you that it is very much a matter of taste how you
> rank the sextet of ND, Ohio State, Oregon, Auburn, Miami and UCLA.
> It could go any which way you prefer, and you could somehow justify
> it. As a pollster I would be very confused, myself, as the records
> of these teams for the season don't show much difference.
>
> May be the pollsters are dumbfucks? I dunno. I do think that they
> have seen tapes of more games than you and I combined. And they
> certainly understand football better than I do (can't speak for you
> on that). As much as I like it when ND does well, for this season
> (with ND firmly out of the MNC hunt) I don't really care whether
> they are ranked 5th or 10th by AP. Both are very respectable rankings,
> and for the big money bowls it's the BCS ranking that counts.

The rankings, in pure form, do not matter; however, there is a lot that
goes with the rankings. In many cases, perception is reality, and the
polls frame perception.

While you say that the pollsters see more tapes, etc., I don't buy it.
I have seen enough poor balloting in the polls to know how imperfect
these systems are, and to know that there are a lot of votes being cast
with poorly framed considerations.

Perfect examples are tyhe myriad times that team A will beat team B,
both will have comparable records, and team B will be ranked lower
still just because they couldn't "make up enou8gh ground" from where
the misguided rankings were the week before.

People vote based upon what the polls looked like the week before. And
the current ND--tOSU comparison underscores that evidence is far down
the list when most voters cast their ballots.


> The questions remain:
> 1) Why do you feel that "ND always gets a pass"?

Because they've won "National Championships" after losing the last game
of the year, or by leap-frofgging teams that outperform them. Becauser
they are the only school to have a Heisman winner from a team that only
won two games in that season.

It's standard; I was just showing another example. And inviting the
debate.


> Why haven't many
> pollsters grown out of the ranks from the presumably large group
> of "football enthusiast ND haters"? It seems to me that ND is among
> the most hated programs, so surely there should be many pollsters
> sharing this feeling. It's not like there's a subcommittee hearing
> of would-be-pollsters, where the question "do you hate ND" is some
> kind of a lithmus test:)

I think ND haters are more likely to vote realistically on ND than ND
lovers are. That's just my perception; I know if I had a vote, I would
still rank ND realistically even though I might fall into your "ND
haters" category.

And I don;t really "hate" ND; I think they have their place in CFB, and
I think they are a great, storied program. I love to watch them play
ball, and I often enjoy their victories as much as I often enjoy seeing
them beaten.

But again, ND does indeed get a pass--so do other powerhouse programs.
Michigan is typically the highest ranked three-loss team whenever they
lose their third game of the year, or at least the week after.



> 2) Why did you single out Ohio State vs. ND rather than say
> Ohio State vs. UCLA?

Oklahoma and Ohio State, USC and Penn State, etc... these schools all
enjoy similar luxury with pollsters. Just not to the degree that ND
does and historically has.

And also, UCLA is not ranked higher than Ohio State. And rightfully so.

.