Re: I CALL BULL *** ON MIKE PAYNES' "UPA Members Call to Action" artical.....

On Jan 2, 10:33 pm, jacob <jacobsi...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Toad, you make some good suggestions, but the big picture is that most
ultimate players, even those very passionate about playing the game,
are pretty apathetic about its administration.


no arguement there. but when you are an administrairor of a sport it
is your job/duty (a la rec 101) to reach out to the participants in
such a way that people feel energized (is that the opposite of
apathetic) to give in put and feedback. So, the question i would pose
to you, in order to deal with the huge disconect (which mike payne was
complaining about), is.......WHY are even those that are very
passionate about playing the game pretty apathetic about its
administration? i know i have my theories, what are yours?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 The fact that the
surveys may have some leading questions has little, if anything to do
with low response rates.


agreed, its more that they are simply too long and drawn out. So my
theory is that they would get many many more respondants if the
surveys were more short, general and conveniently (or stategically)
conducted. The stategy should be to get general info from a larger
pool of members so that you get a better read on what the majority
actualy does want and need.......and then go for more detailed info
once the general info is gathered. Either way, with only 6% of the
members giving feedback no one knows ANYTHING about what the majority
thinks or wants? Which, in turn, puts administrators in a position of
speculation in which they can rely on nothing other than THEIR OWN
preferences (or at the very best, projecting thier preferences as to
what THEY THINK the membership at large desires) which, imo, suits the
upa administrators just fine.

I mean seriously jacob, what good does it do for the head of the
administrators to complain about the apathetic nature of the members?
shouldnt he rather put on his thinking cap and make the necessary (and
obvious) changes to the structure of the process in order to achieve
his/the desired goal? And THIS is why i believe all his gestures to
just be another part of the smoke screen that may reveal "part" of the
problem but does nothing to really solve it. Just seems fucked up to
me that he focuses completely on, and points the finger at, the
membership for not taking part in what he believes to be a sound
system of providing ideas and in put yet cant see that maybe, just
maybe, that the structure of the communication process is amiss as
well.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


 People who won't take 5 minutes to fill out
a survey, leading questions or not, forfeit much of their right to
complain.


but they dont provide 5 minute surveys. theirs take well over an hour
to fill out and they usually arent offered in such a setting in which
they would get maximum response. I would think providing one with the
registration process would be the most likely way to maximize the
response rate, be they manditory or vollutary. I dont see the problem
with making them manditory but peri k seems to think if they took that
strategy that people would make a mockery of the survey and fill in
sarcastic/joke answers (which shows very little confidence in the
membership on her behalf). Isnt not participating already a form of
mockery? so make em vouluntary then. at least they have now taken
advantage of cornering each and every member in a place in time when
they KNOW they have the members attention. Staffing all sectionals
events is another place where you know ALL the members will be. So
dosent it seem odd to you that upa administrators have never seen fit
to take advantage of this obvious consensus opportunity (yet they
conduct surveys at nationals??? uhmm, can you say "elitism"?)? So for
me its either a case of them not really wanting this info so that they
can keep things how they are OR its just a case of them being
completely incompetent. although i guess it could be a combination of
the two.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


 If the more motivated people get more say over the
administration of the game, that's fair.


how? i though their first and formost duty is to represent the
membership?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


 It's not like they just
inherited their influence over ultimate.

it sure seems to be so. and your previous coment sums that notion up
rather neatly. The state of apathy amoungst the membership is a
vicious cycly that is in no way void of the administrations efforts to
stop or prevent it. Mike payne himself said that communication is a
"two way street", he also implied thet the voter turnout (6%) was
pretty damn pituful. So i would think that the upa admin is at least
half to blame......yet he dosent seem to be accepting ANY of the
blame. Now, imo, the admin should shoulder the majority of the blame
because it is their job to motivate and generate intrest in the
policies and "wants and needs" of its members and their participation
in the process. And this isnt just me talking here jake, these are
the basic principals of the recreation profession that are taught
early on (rec 101) in the study of this field of profession. I wonder
if ANY of the upas' administrators have any scholastic backround in
study of recreation.

.