Re: NCUA is a Scam

On Nov 18, 4:50 pm, Vancer <ryanpva...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Have you met them?  Genuinely curious here.  I have met and had an 1.5
hour or so business lunch with Skip, despite being considerably small
time.  We had good discussions on ultimate's direction, disagreed on
some things, made a small business deal, and moved on.  He had well-
thought out ideas, and I believe from that meeting that he went into
this with good intentions, though I find them misguided.

I also had email discussions with Cyle when we were attempting to
secure Florida artwork for Force Middle.  While we eventually couldn't
come to an arrangement because they just didn't have artwork that we
could use, all the discussions were professional and transparent.

As to the rest...

"Anatomy of a Scam"
1) History of pulling scams before (Florida incident)

- Less a scam than gross money mismanagement, then panic and poor
ethical choices to try to fix the problem.  If he had intentionally
embezzled the money and put it into his pocket, I would call it a
scam.  However, based on his story and the surrounding information, I
don't believe this was the case at all.  Frankly, the money
mismanagement scares me more than the following choices, especially
with the ultimate oversight of Skip (for C1) and the board (for
NCUA).

2) Find a revenue stream

- I have no problem with them attempting to make money from ultimate.
I tried to do the same thing myself.

3) Find dupes (college kids) and tell them this is the greatest thing
ever

- And you are not attempting to find dupes with your accusations?
Posting blatantly wrong information is much more duplicitous than
creating something to try to further ultimate.  I think that their
attempts to further ultimate are misguided and will be ultimate
unsuccessful, but I certainly don't begrudge them the attempt.

4) Get a bunch of people to say what a great idea this is (The
huddle,
Florda Ultimate, toadies on RSD)

- There are an equal number saying it isn't a great idea.  Just
because someone agrees with their grand scheme for ultimate doesn't
make them a toady.

5) Give the Dupes very little info

"I have many problems with both the NCUA and C1 despite nothing but
positive interactions with both Skip and Cyle in ultimate business
related activities."  Vance 08.
This is one of the primary problems I've had during the process, and I
certainly concede this point, though not the connotations of it.  I
wish they had been more up front with everything, but I don't believe
they did it in an attempt to trick anyone.

6) Take the Dupes money as long as they are willing to give it
etc etc

But not as much money as you are claiming while calling them con
artists, correct?  They are charging what they belive to be a fair
price for their services.  There is no monopoly here, and teams made
their feelings known.  Those who felt that was a fair price would
join, those who didn't, wouldn't.

Ryan Vance

Sorry, I didn't realize you were friends. I have never met them.
Still, their ideas of change are nothing new and it is clear most
colleges did not support them in their attempted coup.

If they had approached the whole thing in an intelligent, business-
like manner, I might feel differently.

They ran the hype like a pyramid scheme with no info, sign up now or
you'll miss out attitude, ever changing plans, and very little means
for making it happen. Perhaps they are just dreamers and not very
competent, but when you take people’s money and don’t give them a
product it’s often called a scam.
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: NCUA is a Scam
    ... some things, made a small business deal, and moved on. ... Less a scam than gross money mismanagement, ... I have no problem with them attempting to make money from ultimate. ... Find dupes and tell them this is the greatest thing ...
    (rec.sport.disc)
  • Re: NCUA is a Scam
    ... some things, made a small business deal, and moved on. ...  Frankly, the money ... creating something to try to further ultimate. ... a scam. ...
    (rec.sport.disc)
  • DG7777/ PhilIvey whatever other names he uses
    ... Well..this guy interests me because of the depth and ability to scam ... begging for money ... He has so many Stars and Full Tilt Accounts its hard to keep track ... it is is one person I give him the ultimate in props...but I wouldnt ...
    (rec.gambling.poker)
  • Re: DG7777/ PhilIvey whatever other names he uses
    ... Thanks for exposing this scam. ... begging for money ... He has so many Stars and Full Tilt Accounts its hard to keep track ... it is is one person I give him the ultimate in props...but I wouldnt ...
    (rec.gambling.poker)
  • Re: Credit where its due
    ... especially S. America treat this as the ultimate ... >>> It's the only way a club side can get to be called world champions. ... > How do they make money from me, ... >> What kind of business is it you run Ted? ...
    (uk.sport.football.clubs.liverpool)