Re: Tough Love Ultimate


"Chuck Yu" <cayu@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:9a43a471-c028-485c-be97-dd6da926b216@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I'd rate myself as an average Ultimate player...not ridiculous in any
aspect of the game, but not horrible anywhere either. So here are the
thoughts of one average player:

Three step hard cap for traveling
Traveling results in a turnover
No way. I'm not ridiculously fast, nor am I really huge (5'10", 165
lbs), so my momentum is not that great, but stopping in 3 steps is
still really hard for anyone.

Then design a better offensive scheme than the one you are currently
running.

To do so would probably involve slowing
down before catching the disc, which would help the defense even more.

This would help your game develop into above average much more rapidly.

Traveling as it is, while not a turnover, still helps the defense more
than the offense, provided it's called. Making it a turnover would
slow down the game because of added incentive to call (questionable)
travels.

No picks on defensive players (this should appease the 'safety factor'
people who think picks can be dangerous in Ultimate). In other words, a
pick can only be called if an offensive player is the object of an
obstruction.
Not really in favor of this. Yes, I have taken advantage of the pick
rule on defense by creating a pick to allow a teammate to catch up or
setting myself up to get picked if the offense makes a cut, but I'd
like to think that it's a cerebral part of the game.

Five count
Make it 7 or 8. I'm all for keeping the disc moving.

Jump Passes Legal
NOOOOOOO. HORRIBLE IDEA. Why don't we just get rid of the mark
altogether?

Really? Have you ever played dischoops? I love how you have decided
against something without ever trying it out. The rule works just fine in
hoops.

You can hit the disc while it's in the thrower's hand
I'm not exactly a fan of the "disc is part of your hand, therefore
contact with it is a foul" rule, but I don't think that explicitly
allowing it would be a good idea either. Not sure why, but I'm just
not a fan.

Play dischoops.

No Strip calls (but you can't grab the disc and pull it from the thrower,
only knock it out; simultaneous catches go to the player who comes down
with
it)
What if the disc is still being contested when both players come down
(i.e. we both get our hand around the disc are both still hanging on
when we come down)? This rule could warp a lot of discs and turn
Ultimate into tug-of-war.

Play dischoops.

Momentum into the endzone is a turnover (sounds arbitrary I know but no
more
on-field superfluous movement)

It *is* arbitrary. This plus 10-yard endzones plus your layout-travel
rule would pretty much eliminate the possibility of a huck.

No, it would just means that it requires skill.

Also, what
if you land straddling the goal line? This would also complicate play
near the goal line.

Turnover.

Momentum OB is a turnover
Pivoting OB or straddling OB is a turnover (seems arbitrary but either
way
is arbitrary)
Well, straddling OB is already a turnover if you land that way. these
rules would effectively narrow the field and make it really difficult
to get anything started.

Have you tried this or are you just talking out of your ass? Play
dischoops.

On the pull, I would just roll the disc OB,
so offense starts on the sideline. The mark would force hard up-line,
which is a nearly impossible throw anyway, since the thrower can't
step out or it would be a turnover, and then maybe a second player
poaches in the lane to prevent any swing throw.

Side outs do not require a pivot foot and as in soccer and basketball, there
is some lateral movement allowed by the player getting the disc in play.
Layout catch you have to keep a knee down (I was against this addition to
dischoops but it works a lot better than I would have guessed). Getting
up
is a travel
I wouldn't say layouts are always the product of a mistake. Yes, more
accurate throws result in fewer layouts, but just because I have to
lay out to catch a disc, doesn't mean it was a bad throw.

Yes it does.

Furthermore,
this rule fails to look at both ends of a play. Sure, maybe the throw
was slightly off, but what about the play that the receiver made to
save his thrower? Let's compare this proposed rule to other
sports...say...baseball. A pitcher makes a mistake and hangs a slider,
and the hitter hits a long fly ball that would have been a home run,
except the left-fielder makes a great leaping catch against the wall.
Since the pitcher made a mistake, let's let the batter take first base
anyway, even though his outfielder just saved his ass. Also, what if I
catch a layout-D? Do I get still get this quasi-penalty?

This rule is identical to basketball. Again, play dischoops and then
comment on how it does or doesn't work.

Double Team is legal
And the University of Florida did rejoice. Why don't I find a team of
guys who are 6'6" and just surround the thrower?

Learn how to throw.
There is a distinction between a blocking foul and a charge (Ultimate
doesn't account for this since it is 'non-contact').
Umm...I think it does account for this. I've always seen it that way,
anyhow.

How many different give and go moves do you have?
All infractions and timeouts result in a sideout (players can set up
wherever and also substitute).

I think this takes some of the skill out of the game. People train so
that they can survive the marathon points. Being able to set up
however you want after an infraction would cause people to foul
intentionally (even with mandatory subs) in order to reset an offense.

Offensive fouls are turnovers. People train to survive marathon points to
overcompensate for their weak disc skills.

Five second Pick-up (or ten). Keep the game going.
I could see this one...probably closer to ten than five...especially
on turnovers that are far away (e.g. throws that go to no one).

Sure, I could see a team hucking it to nowhere (perhaps just before a stall
count) knowing that it would take their opponents more than 5 seconds to get
to the disc.

Ten yard endzone
Too small. I could see 15 or 20.

That's because you're an average player.

80 yard field.
Why? Seems arbitrary.

The field is too short.

Tipping and airbrushing is legal (why not? it's very risky).
Sure. Why not? I haven't seen the rule on it, but I thought it was
legal at the risk of a turnover.

Pull from the 20 Yard line but defensive players may line up as much as
up
to 40 yard line.
Possible, but seems like another arbitrary rule change. How is this
one tough love?

Tough love just means firm, consistent, non-arbitrary and objective
boundaries. It doesn't mean, let's just make the game harsh for harsh sake.

35 yard line for bricks.
Too much.

Learn how to pull the disc in bounds.
5 Yard penalty for off-sides
There's already a penalty for offsides (If you do it twice).

Mandatory Substitution for fouls (we don't like fouls)
DQ for 5th foul


No continuation rule. A foul is a foul. Play stops.
So if I throw through a foul and the disc is caught, it still comes
back? That would be like taking out the "and 1" rule in basketball.

Sure, some provisions should be made if this happens and the throw is caught
for a score.

Roster limit of 15 (2 reserves for a tournament)
2 reserves...as in alternates if some of the 15 get hurt? Why don't we
just make it 17?

No, the reserves are for the weekend. If a player gets hurt during a game,
the roster size drops to 14, etc. The next game a reserve would be added to
the active roster.

I'm not a fan of roster limits...I think that teams
should decide how many people to take on, because with fewer people,
you can get more of a rhythm going (I think it helps to keep the same
line for a few points), but there's fewer subs, and practices can be
harder to run, but with more subs, some people won't play anyway, so
really, there's an implied roster limit anyway. That is, if a team
takes more than N people, it won't look any different than if they
have N+1 or N+10 or N+20 people. Not sure what the value of N is, but
I know it exists.

-Chuck Yu
#2 NCSU-B
#??? Cannibal Marshmallow


.

Relevant Pages

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