Re: TOP TEN ISSUES IN ULTIMATE

On Jun 18, 8:42 pm, Ryan Thompson <thomp...@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Jun 18, 12:14 pm, swillaho...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:





On Jun 18, 11:50 am, "MrPi...@xxxxxxxxx" <MrPi...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Jun 18, 8:08 am, joadnt...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:

On Jun 17, 6:47 pm, joe <forbes....@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

As much as i don't like the idea of refs,

why? whats the big hang up with refs?

They don't call fouls that they don't see, they call things that look
like fouls but aren't, they remove a player's prerogative to not call
a foul that occurred against him in order to press an advantage and,
despite not being players, they probably have more of an effect on the
outcome of a game than any other individual on the field.

Interesting.....
All things being equal, I agree Punto!

But there's a catch...as always....

W/ self officiation there's a universal viewpoint....but any call/
resolution will be subjective.
W/ referees, there will be a limited viewpoint....but any call/
resolution will be objective.

Another way of seeing this argument...
W/ self-offication, the preference is that 'calls be made' versus
'calls be objective'.
W/ refs, the preference is that the 'calls be objective' versus that
'calls be made'.

Interesting......

Punto, you can't have it all.
Perhaps in a utopian society you could.
But you gotta balance being realistic and idealistic.
And respect opinions as much as...well, logic.  =)

Yup....there is no 'right' or 'best' answer.
A solution?

Legitimate options and let the players choose.

I think that observers provide an excellent compromise - you will
never see a blown "non-call" because every uncontested foul will be
called if the aggrieved party has it in their best interest.

You have the universal viewpoint but also the final objective
judgment.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

An 'excellent compromise' is not reason for withholding legitimate
options. Also ANY option will have 'faults' contrary to your opinion.

Case in point, does the TOS system account for incorrect calls by the
initiating players?
How do you implement an 'over ruled' limit on players? That is,
supposing a player makes 3 foul calls, and all are over ruled...do you
warn the player that another 'over rule' will lead to ejection?
Is this the only redress against (apparently) 3 excessive stoppage of
plays?

Making a subjective situation/call more objective after the fact is
not that simple, both in defintion and concept.

Consider my previously suggested alternative....allow refs/officials
to make active calls to which the relevant players will have the power
to over rule or agree with. Any call will be objective in nature, and
this allows the players the final say.

But again, not that simple. The notion of having 'opponents' (honest
opponents) deciding the outcome of a call (that could lead to
ejection) is discomforting.

And the concerns of missed calls, is just one reason for not having
refs. Similar to saying that players involved in a situation are by
definition, subjective and not objective.

Again....No single option or compromise is 'perfect' or 'the best'.
It's why players should be given legitimate options and be allowed to
choose for themselves as to what meets their needs the best.
.

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