Re: Getting Eligibility After Graduating

On Dec 14, 1:34 pm, kyle.weisb...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
On Dec 14, 12:49 pm, colinmcint...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:





On Dec 14, 6:54 pm, kyle.weisb...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:

1. Avoid taking a class that is necessary for you to graduate, pushing
back graduation by a semester. Just take that class by itself in the
final spring semester and only pay the partial tuition. Taking a
semester abroad my make this easier or more enjoyable to arrange.
Option 1 is abuse and effective.

Is it abuse? This is similar to what I did to use my 5th year. I
started mid-year at the beginning of college and then took my last
fall off so I had 5 spring semesters and 3 fall ones (so I was a full
time student in my final spring). Why would you regard that as
abuse? Simply because I changed my college timeline so I could play
an additional season?

If so, wouldn't anyone who decides to go to grad school right away
instead of taking time off before starting grad school simply so they
can use their eligibility also be "abusing" the system? Or is the
difference that I slowed instead of accelerated my educational
timeline?

Sorry for all of the questions, I'm just curious.

-Kyle

I do think it is abuse when it is done in the situation I described,
delaying one class strictly for the purpose of playing ultimate in the
spring. The implication is that you've bought a year of eligibility
for the price of one unnecessary class taken earlier in your college
career. And it uses the Senior Second Semester exception in a way
contrary to it's apparent purpose (to not require players to take
extra unnecessary credits, just because they're a little ahead of the
game academically).

I think you fairly point out that the line is not entirely clear.
Anything that would bring the legitimacy of one's studentship into
question would suggest abuse. In that sense, slowing one's academic
timeline does question the legitimacy, while accelerating it (with
intention of continuing) does not.

Your situation is a little unusual due to the late start, but assuming
you delayed solely for the purpose of the extra season of eligibility,
I'd call it abuse. Now, whether that abuse should be allowed is a
different question.

But the UPA Eligibility folks right now are putting a triple deadbolt
on the front door while leaving the side door and all the windows wide
open. I should also be clear that I don't necessarily think the
system "abusers" are acting badly by buying eligibility at the price
that the UPA is offering it.

-Colin

Thanks for the answer. I disagree that it is abuse considering the
way the rules are written, permitting 5 years of eligibility and
allowing flexibility in a student's academic status in the previous
semester. Whether players choose to take time off or go to school
part time because they want to play another season of Ultimate or they
need to work to earn money for school or they failed classes and need
to stay for one more semester I don't think any of it can be labeled
as abuse because in all cases players are abiding by not only the
letter of the rules but, as far as I can tell, the intent as well.
They are all students in degree seeking programs at the school that
they play for in the semester that the series is played.

If you believe that the rules themselves don't adequately ensure
legitimacy that's another matter. But if the rules aren't written to
prohibit players from playing who haven't been enrolled in the
semester of the series AND the previous semester under the full course
load I don't think that anyone playing by the rules could be labeled
an "abuser" of those rules.

As for rule changes to the eligibility rules, I actually think they
are pretty good. The biggest change I would make would be to limit
players to only 4 years of eligibility and give players the option to
"redshirt" for one year at any point in their college career (they
wouldn't be able to play the UPA college series during that year, but
other events would be okay). I would also increase the number of
times rosters get rechecked so that players couldn't sign up for
classes, get the roster past the registrar, and then drop out of
classes. Ideally the UPA would reconfirm the rosters with the
registrar after each stage of series competition. Obviously, that
requires resources that currently are better spent on other programs.

-Kyle- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well, setting aside whether intentional manipulation of a legitimate
college career is "abuse," there's a more severe objection I have to
the current state of the eligibility rules and system. My thoughts on
it are below and I'd be eager to hear your take on this situation. My
list of solutions is by no means comprehensive, even to the extent #3
serves as a catch-a-lot.

One big problem I have with the eligibility rules is that players are
allowed to buy eligibility by enrolling for one and only one semester
of a second bachelor's program. Certainly there is no question that
these players are not legitimate students. It is a waste of
university resources and is unfair to barely rejected legitimate
applicants.

Next objection is that these second bachelor's players are allowed to
play, but totally legitimate non-degree seeking students are not
allowed to play. There is no question that these students (the
demonstrably legitimate ones) are completely within the spirit of the
rules, they just happen to be excluded by an arbitrary line that's
been drawn unfairly (with respect to them). If these students appeal,
they are strung along for months on end and then the appeal is denied
on grounds that if the appeal were granted, it would open the system
up to fraud and abuse.

My proposed, but admittedly only slightly thought-through solution is
as follows. Why not just set a price equivalent to the Second
Bachelor's tuition and let players pay that to the UPA instead, if
they want to do this for their 4th or 5th year? At least then the UPA
would be being upfront with the membership, plus a burden would be
relieved from the universities and the UPA would collect the benefit.
Players must be enrolled in a class to establish the link the the
university and if they want to play, they can pay the tuition
difference between their course load and that of a full-time degree-
seeking undergraduate student. This allows the legitimate full-time
non-degree-seeking students to play without paying too much more than
they otherwise would, while the illegitimate students play just like
they otherwise would, but don't waste university resources and their
money goes to the UPA instead.

Other possible solutions I see to this problem:
(1) Establish an Eligibility Appeal Committee that can function
efficiently and show some sensitivity to demonstrably legitimate
students.
(2) Presume that students in a second bachelor's program are not
legitimate students, but allow appeals (again requiring an improved
appeals committee)
(3) something involving a greater revamping of the rules.

In the meantime, to continue to allow obvious abuse of the system and
then reject legitimate students on the basis of attempting to curtail
abuse is something I find contemptible.

.

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