Re: Announcing my candidacy for the UPA Board of Directors

"Frank Huguenard" <fhuguenard(no_spam)@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:FhQPi.58218$Um6.8595@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx:

Again with the insults.

You don't even know me.



I know you're a crazy megalomaniac who can't stay away from places he
isn't wanted! I know you're old and slow! I know you're bad at
ultimate! This is fun!


"Tim" <tspirido@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1192211999.939160.138520@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Frank, why aim so low? Ultimate is just a pebble on the beach. The
White House is hiring, you'd fit right in.

On Oct 12, 12:36 am, "Frank Huguenard"
<fhuguenard(no_spam)@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
"Head Beagle" <we...@xxxxxxx> wrote in message

news:1192159826.320881.144190@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Frank begins with rule changes. Lets check them out.

abolish double teams:

Could be interesting. Would absolutely DESTROY low level play, as
a large percentage of rec league players would never be able to
get a throw off against a double team, much less a triple team.

I disagree but there is only one way to find out.

My take on this is that the double team rule epitomizes Ultimate
Frisbee's
Creators philosophy. "Let's create a set of rules that are easy and
therefore attractive to inexperience people" (remember, they were
completely
anti-'win at all costs', anti-competitive and wanted to create
something that was attractive to non-jocks). The whole game has
this thinking built
in. We don't need penalties, that will make the game too hard and
scare people away.

Again, can we please go back and see if their intentions bore fruit?
Did these kind of rules really attract so many people? After 30 or
so years, I'd say probably not. The irony is that over the years,
the demographic has
shifted to be more athletic anyways and yet the original framework
never changed.

My theory is that low level play wouldn't be destroyed but in fact,
it would
be replaced. Adjusting the rules away from something that is less
attractive to non-athletes and more attractive to athletes is good
thing.

Wouldn't effect high level play all that much because good teams
would just
exploit it and it wouldn't be worth it so no one would do it.

Hmm. I disagree completely on this. I think it may make a huge
difference
in making the game evolve but again, we'll never know unless...



picks:

Remeber the video of the girl getting clobbered?? Yeah, that is
why there is a pick rule, unless you want to see the advent of a
new style of ultimate player: the pick setter. Height: 5'6 Weight:
210, really good at dropping the hammer on defenders tracking a
disc in the air while covering a deep route. Hospital visits
increase 873%

That girl did NOT get clobbered because of a pick. The pick rule
has been
in place all these years and how many torn ACL, MCL, separated
shoulders, concussions, etc. have occurred in the sport? Ultimate
is a dangerous game.

A 210, 5'6" player would get lost on the field but I'm not going to
go there.

The motion offense obsoletes the pick rule. This is a fact, not
opinion.

It is incredibly unfair to impose the pick rule on a team that I am
running
(hypothetically of course since I am currently not running one).

Moving picks, vis a vis, basketball would be illegal of course but I
defy you to author a pick rule that is enforceable in the context of
the motion
offense. I can tell you that the current wording is no where near
sufficient.

Terrible idea.

You're opinon.

put a hard cap of three steps for traveling

Slows the game down as there is now a risk associated with running
at a sprint. But, not too bad as long as you don't stick to your
"travel is a turn" guns.

I'm not sure I agree with your presumption that it would slow the
game down.
True, the risk reward for catching the disc at a high speed makes it
not worth it but the overall speed of an offense could effectively
be much faster since flow will be more regular. In other words,
with a soft cap, players runs fast but then take a long (and
somewhat arbitrary) time to get
reset to continue the offense. A more regulated gait could generate
faster
offenses.

out of bounds means out of bounds (no pivoting or momentum O.B.)

Why not?? Why does this matter?? There is a set rule, everyone
plays by it. Also, Ultimate not the only sport to allow people to
play from out of bounds.

Why?

Making O.B. truly out of bounds would have the effect of making the
game harder. Remember, the Creators made the game easy
intentionally.



10 yard endzones:

Obviously this reduces hucks and makes defense a whole lot easier.
Why else do you want to do this??

I forgot, lengthen the field 10-80-10

30 seconds between points

Hmm, I might go for 60, but less than 90 is good. You would have
to set some limits on how long a team had to sub as well,
especially the offense, to allow defenses to have more than 10
seconds to adjust.

I have to admit, out of all the things I put down, this one is the
easiest
shot down but please consider the context of Todd's question. He
asked what
I would do to make the sport more spectator friendly and so since
I've seen
how crowds have gathered to watch a game without stoppages, I cut it
down as
short as possible. I thought 15 was too short. Imagine on defense
though.
You've got 30 seconds to get ready so you've got to really hustle to
get back to the line and catch your breath for the next point or sub
out.

abolish 'boxiing out':

This is one of the worst rules in the game. It's illegal to box out.
Player
A is not entitled to take a position and box out a defender. Again,
this rule was put in place because to legalize boxing out would mean
admitted that Ultimate is not a non-contact sport. Try to remember
the Creators frame of mind.

???? explain more. I see boxing out as player A standing in a
position that prevents player B from getting to the disc while
still allowing player A to make the catch. How are you going to
abolish this?

add tipping, delaying, air brushing:

I'd be fine with that. Wouldn't happen too much, risk is too high,
but it would be cool for freestylers to have a new move in ulty.

It's very risky but again, why is it illegal? Better yet, why in
the 11th
edition did they make it illegal to delay the disc on defense? What
a crock. How can you commit a travel violation if you don't even
have possession?



add fouling out:

BS. Either this game can be self-policed or it can not. I'm really
tired
of listening to people say how great self-refereeing is and at the
same time
these same people will say -it will never work-. hypocrits, one and
all.

However, I would argue that the legitimate reason against a fouling
out mechanism is that teams will 'go to the bench' to get a thug to
do the dirty
work. That is my only concern here but that could be remediated
with team
fouls, yellow cards, etc.

Requires refs/observors for every game. Problems with logisitics.

eliminate the continuation rule:

So what happens when a foul is called and the pass is caught?
Doesn't this increase the incentive to foul, especially on hucks?

The continuation rule would have never come into existance (1987
maybe? I forget; it wasn't always there) had the concept of
penalizing a foul been instituted. The continuation rule was one of
the first band-aids.

Play should stop on every violation called.



eliminate disc starts in the middle of the field (side out for all
restarts):

Why?

Good question. Beyond the obvious 'Why not'?, my reference point
goes back
to dischoops. The game is so much more incredibly cleaner than
Ultimate and
one of the reasons is side out. Part of the reason why is that most
stoppages now result in turnovers, player substitutions, etc.

I wasn't too biased either way when I put the rule in DH but after
the fact
and having experienced it first hand, sideouts fit like a glove.
Sorry I can't give a better response but maybe after I sleep on it.

no getting up after laying out or falling down until after you
throw the disc:

This rule I was totally against and suggested by a DJ Patel. I
thought it
was a terrible idea but copntrary to opinions, I am open to input.
Now when
I watch Ultimate, it looks retarded when a player gets up from the
ground.
Dischoops work so well in this regard. One of my favorite plays is
the one
Matt Bruss pioneered where he goes down to catch the disc like a
baseball slide and while he's popping back up to his feet, he throws
the disc to himself on a dribble. It's a very sweet move.

UH...how is this going to work?? THey have to throw from the
position they land in?? So basically laying out on O = Automatic
turn because you have to throw from your belly like a beached
whale?

No, you're required to keep one knee on the ground.

? MAYBE make
them throw from their knees or something, but even that is getting
ridiculous.

Nope, anybody that has played dischoops can attest that this works
extremely
well.

Ha ha...this would be really funny if you allow double
teams too.

Why? Put some ownership on an offense not to put its players on the
ground.

Some poor guy lying on the ground surrounded by 5 defenders
all stalling him, knowing he has a .000001% chance of ever
completing anything.

Whos' fault is that?

jump passes legalized:

Hmmm, I could go for this. It would make defense a bit more
difficult, which I am not sure we need that given the efficiency
of good offenses already, but it could be fun. An interesting
tweak, but nothing substantial.

Efficiency in offenses? You're joking? You must be talking about
teams better than Sockeye and Jam, are you?



etc.:

What else?? These are fun to think about.

I forgot, the disc is live. It's legal to knock it out of the
throwers hand. The strip rule is abolished (although it is not
legal to rip the disc
out of the thrower's hand). Basically, whomever comes down with the
disc has possession. This cleans up the game more than you can
imagine. Again,
ask anyone who has played dischoops or better yet, play it yourself
and find
out.

Oh, and one last thing, this notion of 'it didn't effect the play'
is so wrong I don't even know how strongly to say that. Billy
Berrou is about to
make an appearance and start swearing and calling out people by
name. It's
utter non-sense.








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Relevant Pages

  • Re: UOA blurb #1
    ... The Ultimate Officials Association ... The disc must be thrown from player to ... player, in any direction, as running with the disc is not allowed. ... Field, Equipment and Game Specifications ...
    (rec.sport.disc)
  • =?utf-8?Q?Re:=20UOA=20blurb=20#1?=
    ... The Ultimate Officials Association ... The disc must be thrown from ... player, in any direction, as running with the disc is ... Field, Equipment and Game Specifications ...
    (rec.sport.disc)
  • Re: Announcing my candidacy for the UPA Board of Directors
    ... Does it fundamentally alter the game in an undesirable way? ... 5'6" player would get lost on the field but I'm not going to go ... The motion offense obsoletes the pick rule. ... disc goes up. ...
    (rec.sport.disc)
  • Re: Announcing my candidacy for the UPA Board of Directors
    ... that will make the game too hard and scare ... 5'6" player would get lost on the field but I'm not going to go ... The motion offense obsoletes the pick rule. ... the risk reward for catching the disc at a high speed makes it not ...
    (rec.sport.disc)
  • Re: Tough Love Ultimate
    ... aspect of the game, ... Traveling as it is, while not a turnover, still helps the defense more ... than the offense, provided it's called. ... I'm all for keeping the disc moving. ...
    (rec.sport.disc)