Re: Head Beagle's Post (too long to be buried deep within the Motion Offense thread)


I've been moving with the disc for at least 15 years, legally. It works.

No, you haven't. You have never maintained uninterupted possession of
the disc while covering 30 feet of field as a basketball player can do
while dribbling the ball. It is called a travel. You can't do it in
ultimate. You may have been moving while passing the disc between a
teamate and yourself, but that is entirely different.



Not sure what to say here other than just about when the defender 'catches
up', I'll carve out a move in the opposite direction.and never completely
give back 100% of the separation I earned. It's like carving up mogels.


Which is EXACTLY what everyone else tries to do in the same situation.
Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Where is the revolutionary
thinking??


It's a case of match-ups. You draw any field configuration with x's and o's
and there will be on obvious strong side and weak side to each defender,
yeah (the weak side being the side the plays to the receiver's strength --
i.e. if a defender is facing up a cutter from entering the backfield, the
downfield side of the cutter is the weak side for the defense).

What penetration allows is for the disc to be moved to the weak side of the
defenders. This is by design. You have to admit that if you could invert
the defense so that the strong side becomes the weak side, you've got the
defense at an advantage. You combine that with the fact that you're running
a spread formation so that you'll have multiple options in which ever
direction you go, you've got up to three options BEFORE you get to a 1000
ms. And yes, of course there are times where I hold on to the disc for 3-5
seconds (which is why I have to throw a lot of 50 ms. throws to keep my
average down.


Basically you are saying to use rapid disc movement to place the
defense out of position. In terms of TEAM offense, sounds like a break
mark throw, or a swing pass to the break side, or a give and go
followed by a quick throw to the break side before a defender catches
up. In terms of individual offense, sounds like throwing to the space
away from the defender, allowing the offense the maximum possible
advantage in making the catch.

All things I figured out to teach my team the first year I was
playing. Where is the revolutionary thinking?


A person who runs a different offense than a stack or what ever other stupid
*** offense that's going to put someone in the hospital shouldn't be
penalized because of their lameness.

If you understood the motion offense, you'd understand why I make this
assertion.


The point of the rules is to keep people out of the hospital, not to
cater to any particular offensive strategy. If your offense doesn't
create picks, great, you shouldn't have to worry about it.


What, 80 years old? Give and go moves in basketball have been around for
ever.


Exactly. Soccer too. Ultimate players picked it up pretty quick. Where
is the revolutionary thinking?


Yes, but without being a *** about it, can you do it with the disc in your
hand, at will and with a variety of throws, pivot feet, hands, etc.



Still trying to figure out how you are cutting with the disc in your
hand?? Also, you ignored my observation about the video evidence
indicating that you do not, as you claim, use a variety of pivots and
hands, but are a right handed, left footed thrower like most ultimate
players.


Will you get off of this ***. I've never said anything remotely close to
that. What I've said was why are there not hundreds of players who can
legally execute many, many different give and go moves. That is all.

For the last time, I've never said I'm great. That's almost the beauty of
it.



"I challenge anyone in the world to excel at juke till you puke with a
wider
assortment and array of moves, balance, footwork and throws than me. "

"Are you aware of anyone who can even approach this
number of different give and go moves? Balanced? And WITHOUT
traveling?


Give me a break. "



Comments like this seem to imply that you don't think anyone can do
what you can do, thereby making you the greatest.



"I've said I think differently and I've been thinking differently for
15
years and that I don't enjoy watching contempory ultimate. It's
boring.


People ask, "who the hell are you" and since I don't play on an elite
team,
I've never won nationals, I haven't written any books so I attempt to
qualify myself with my caps. Don't mean to be egoistic and frankly,
there
is NOTHING I'd rather see than to see dozens of players with 40+ give
and go
moves.


32 more to go for you. "

If I were to break down every possible give and go move that I use,
breaking down by footwork, throw, hand, pivot, etc, I could make up a
list of 40. No problem. Don't really feel like doing this, but I
could. I use each of them when the situation dictates. Same as every
other ultimate player.

Where is the revolutionary thinking?



Now, as for your throws. Yeah, you can throw a lot of weird ways. Not
neccesarily game applicable, but cool nonetheless. I wouldn't mind
being able to throw some of those throws as well as you, even if just
for fun. I have been working on what you call the sidearm lift for
awhile now, although I called it a hook push because it is a variant
of a push pass. Use it in games every now and then. Another tool in
the belt, but nothing to spectacular. However, I have never seen any
evidence to suggest that you are particularly efficient/useful with
basic throws (backhand, forehand) in game situations, nor have I seen
evidence that your wide array of throws would make you a significantly
better ultimate player if you were to play ultimate.

As for DiscHoops. Sounds like an interesting variant of disc sports. I
would like to play, I like playing most sports. Is it going to replace
ultimate?? No, but it would probably be fun.

As for your pizza place, it sounded pretty cool. An interesting
combination of culinary styles, I would have liked to have tried it
sometime. If I am ever in the bay area, I will come play dischoops and
try to convince you to cook me some pizza. I won't tell you I am Head
Beagle though, because you probably wouldn't make me pizza if I did.

.

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