Re: Wisconsin said "pick." Georgia said "F that ***!" [not literally]

Your suggestion is not practical and unreasonable. 14 people, a nice
size field, cheering side lines. The idea that a legit pick call not
being heard from coast to coast is absolutely possible and very very
real. (throw in some wind a few planes and it's a cacophony of audio
joy!)

And a very real example, I have played with some people that either by
size or handicap could not yell a pick call audibly beyond the mark.
Sometimes the respective mark didn't hear the call themselves.
Seriously. Do we implement a minimum decible requirement for players?


So there's one very real issue. If a player makes a call, and no else
hears it, what then? Play on? Revert 3 throws, disc check in?



The other is about the benefit of the doubt. El Spiritos demands it,
and I do not question EL on the field. ::tequila shot::

It's one thing to make a call erroneously and fessing up to it. But
my, and the general assumption (assuming of course :) is that if my
mark repeats a pick call, it is legit enough for them to repeat it.

Stopping your play after making the "I think I heard a
call" and pouting until everyone comes backl is just plain dumb if you
are playing any kind of meaningful competitive game.

Any meaningful competitive game will have active third party
officiating. Sorry, but all rules issues come down to the notion of
self-officiating and the reality of any team sport.

For now, self officiating in ultimate: 14 people, 14 refs. You're
supposed to respect each and every call, contest, and redo. Stupid,
erroneous, whatever. Or you could vote on each and every call. (I
hate it, but when in Rome....bitch like the Romans :)

And your previous post...
"We actually had a similar situation in our Westchester summer league
playoff semifinal game where I threw the sick cross-field double helix
hammer for what was the game winning goal in a one point overtime barn
burner. My marker said "there was a pick called". I calmly walked away
from him and looked at all the defenders on the field and said "Who
called a pick?". There was stone silence for about 10 seconds, which
was interrupted by me and my teammates jumping and shouting for joy at
having won the game to advance to the finals.

I have been in the situation where everyone ignores the "ghost pick"
caller and keeps playing. The boy/girl who cried wolf tends to learn a
valuable lesson that way. This may seem like tough love but stopping
play and rewarding for "ghost calls" is a worse outcome in my opinion.
"


I'm all for tough love, s&m or ultimate :) But tough lovin' better
come from a ref and not my opponent or else tough lovin easily appears
to be just straight shafting. And that is no good sober and with no
foreplay.

So, about your vanquished opponents...did they thank you for that tough
love tutorial or walk away like they just got shafted?



maplerowfarm@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
Call me old fashioned but I refuse to go down the road of "I think I
heard a call?" stops play in real competition and is something we have
to start to accomodate in the rules (altho maybe it should be outlawed,
see below).

Maybe in rec league but come on even then I would teach to avoid it.
And I'm one of the "hippies" who has played ultimate in four different
decades.

What happened to the teammate in the situation? Unless your teammate
has their foot in their mouth, oh no wait that's you, please don't
shout out calls and please don't anybody pretend this is going to make
our sport better.

Any teammate of yours makes a call it is THEIR responsibility to repeat
it and NOT yours. Your repeating a call you thought you heard even when
it is obvious there was no call because play is continuing just
confuses the situation, should be illegal and if it isn't let's put it
in the rules. Stopping your play after making the "I think I heard a
call" and pouting until everyone comes backl is just plain dumb if you
are playing any kind of meaningful competitive game.

If you are playing at a high level in a close with an evenly matched
opponent that 20 yards for the offense can mean the world, believe me.
And the stoppage of beautiful offensive flow in our sport by a bad call
is in my mind tantamount to a violation of the spirit of the game.

Now that said any players on the field and/or captains on the sideline
can agree to stop play and let the person "catch up" but if the offense
does not agree to do this you can't make them do it.

MJ aka Dr.Feelgood

Nick Reeck wrote:
Um, I think Gonzo's rule isn't the only one in play. If the call was
made when another player had possession, the disc goes back to that
player no matter how long it took the team with the disc to acknowledge
the call. And even if a pick is called with the disc in the air, it
still goes back to the thrower if the receiver of the disc had her
defender picked.

I think people get really worked up about stuff that could easily be
solved by just sending the disc back. If those 10-20 yards make all
the difference in the world to your offense, then maybe that's
something to work on. Ambiguity about calls is most often an advantage
for the offense, so when play continues under a disputed call, the
equitable thing to do would generally be to revert to where everyone
was when there wasn't a disputed call. I'm guessing here that if
Georgia's 2nd pass had hit the turf, they would probably have been
arguing to uphold the "ghost" pick call and send the disc back 2 throws
(not to upset anyone at Georgia, but it's my experience that this is
often the way things go down, consciously or not).

Anyway, I don't agree with how this was resolved, at least as written.
I'm assuming that the player that heard "pick" repeated the call many
times and loudly, otherwise my understanding of the situation is
flawed. Besides, even if she HAD kept playing and had gotten the D on
that 2nd pass, it should have reverted to the player who had the disc
when pick was called (or, technically, when "pick was called" was
called).

And to clarify, when pick is called, both players return to the
positions they had at the time of the pick (although often people think
the D gets to "catch up", which is not correct).

.

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