Re: Curving an object ball? (Part 3)

On Dec 18, 12:28 pm, "Bob Keller" <bk42...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
"Bambu" <dmanass...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

news:c9ab91ed-fa49-4c33-91fa-f845004acd6d@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx





On Dec 18, 3:02 am, Ron Shepard <ron-shep...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
In article
<6c94f67b-f6c2-42d5-bd0d-2f8318a89...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,

Bambu <dmanass...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Truth is, you curve an object ball every time you make a cut
shot using NO english, and you just dont know it.

No, the object ball does not curve on a cut shot with no english, on
a cut shot with english, or even on a cut shot where the cue ball
has masse.

$.02 -Ron Shepard

Thow indicates throw and english, get used to it, it exists.

Bambu, I re-learned all about this only recently from my discussion here
concerning using outside english on a frozen rail shot. So I'll ask you the
same question that baffled me for a while. If the object ball is frozen to
the rail and outside english is used, how could the ball be pocketed since
the curving path induced by the throw sends it into the rail?

The answer is that throw does not create a curving path. Throw only sends
the ball on a different (straight) path than it would have taken if you only
consider the cue ball contact point.
Bob Keller- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

In order to break that down we would have to start from the beginning,
and you would have to specify more about the shot.
At some point, deflection and throw cancel each other out.
Typically, the outside english negates the throw because it allows for
a fuller hit. That does create a pretty straight line. Thats why many
people never evolve beyond outside english. Its easier than inside
because it negates the throw, and allows for a fuller hit. The fuller
the hit, the less deflection there will be. Depending on speed and
angle of the shot, sometimes throw dominates the shot, other times
deflection does.
On a basic level, left transfers right and vice versa, but you have
to account for the deflection. And the fullness of the hit is what
dictates the amount of deflection. To understand deflection, you must
accept that a ball that is cut acts as if it were hit with english to
a minor degree. Hitting a ball on an angle is similar to hitting it
with english. When youre hitting the ball off its center, its almost
like hitting the ball directly, just off its center....and thus the
english and spin. It causes spin transfer. Even slightly off center is
enough to cause some spin on the part of the object ball.
Lots of people overcut balls up rails because they dont account for,
or over compensate for the throw, including me. Lets examine this shot
again:

http://CueTable.com/P/?@1CHQO1GKbi2PKGV1QBdM1vBdMhoa@2AbHU2HXds2IbGr3MbHW2PXeU2qQtF&ZZ2rHOF&ZZ1sCYF&ZZ2vXeUhoa@

Using cueball A, you want to pocket the 7 by curving around the 3.
First you need to realize which way the 3 ball wants to spin if it is
to curve toward the pocket, just a hair. In this case, the 3 wants
some inside english(left) is to curve toward the bottom rail and the
pocket. You want it to slide just a few balls length, then spin toward
the pocket very slightly. Right english on cueball gives that 3 the
spin it wants, IF you hit it slowly enough to impart enough spin to
cause the curve. As we all know, speed eliminates much of the throw.
It is important to realize that because it is a full hit, there is no
deflection upon contact, only the spin. The ball fights the cloth but
does want to turn slightly toward the pocket if you hit it right. It
takes a full, soft hit, and dont expect much distance because at low
speeds you arent going very far.
Now to prove the point a step further, shoot the same shot with no
english, but this time from where the white cueball is. Now what
happens? You look at the shot in a different light, and it is
different. But to a degree it is similar. Here is why. By cutting that
3 thin(and here you need to, in order to not hit the 7)you are in
effect, transferring the same left hand english to the 3 that it
wanted for the other shot. Do you get as much spin? No, there will be
less curve because there was no english used. Had you used inside or
right english, you would have made that transfer task easier. The
right english helps give the 3 it wants. I should have drawn a
clockwise arrow on the 3, because that is whats happening upon impact,
english or not. It is important to realize that even though you are
hitting the 3 ball on the left side of its tangent. This is where you
would hit the object ball itself with right english, the opposite of
what the 3 ball really wants. It looks as if deflection may occur, and
you may hit the 7 because of it. But what happens instead, if you hit
it slow? You hit what looks like the wrong side of the 3, but in this
case the throw takes precedence over the deflection, because of the
slow speed. Bottom line here is that you gave the 3 the left english
it wanted. You got the clockwise spin by cutting the 3 ball thin and
hitting it slow, thereby increasing the throw effect.....despite the
hit occurring on the wrong side of the 3. The throw eliminates the
deflection, in this case.

From either spot the object can be made to curve. It is not a
phoenomenon, it happens all the time on a pool table,,,,every time
there is not a 100% full collision, there is some amount of throw, and
spin transfer, and curve(only deflection).
.

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