8 BALLS ON THE BREAK, THE WORLD RECORD.

8 BALLS ON THE BREAK, THE WORLD RECORD.
PROPOSITION BANKS.
Trick shot: The impossible cut.

10-26-04 9 pages CR Fast Larry Guninger Bpn, czm, upp, rsb, ppt,
btt.

In 1961 I made 8 balls on the snap at 9 ball and set the world record.
The only two balls that did not fall were the cue ball and the 9 ball.
It was the worst roll of all time. This is the diagram of the shot and
how I missed it and how it should have been performed. This is
presented as a lesson to learn new shots and to know what to do and
what not to do if this ever comes up for you. This can also be a good
proposition bet to make and you can learn a new trick shot that has
real game applications. For how to open the Wei table diagram that is
at the bottom along with the rest of the story on the world record.
After the break and 8 balls fell this was the table lay out I faced.

http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/preset/9ball.html

Long bank of the 9. I knew it could bank, I knew it could go, I also
knew my chances of making it were very bad due to the 4 l/2" very
tight pockets I was playing on. I just did not know how bad the odds
were on the shot at the time.

START( %A[4\6%B[4\8%C[4\7%D[5\6%E[3\6%F[5\9%G[3\8%H[3\7%IC9O6%Pq3O3
%Qq8N6%RB6M3%Sn7Z5%TC5Y7%WE9O6%Xo8O5%Ym5[0%ZD7O9%eA0`9 )END

Set up this shot, tell them the story of the 8 on the break and the
shot I was left, then bet them a beer they can't make the bank I
missed to sell out on. Give them 3 snaps, hell if they don't bite,
give them 5 snaps. This looks so easy, but it's a bear to make.
Most will take the bet and don't know it's a sucker shot.

I shot the cue ball with reverse English from A, 8' down table to the
9 ball frozen on the rail at B and tried to long back it back up table
into C and hung the 9. This looks like an easy bank but it is
extremely hard and there is a huge double kiss out there. It is very
hard to bank this shot into the corner pocket D, it tends to come in
one diamond short on you. There is an extremely thin area to hit on
the 9 where the shot goes and it double kisses out and misses, very
thin. I did not know this shot in 61 but today I would cut the 9 in D
which is a 1 in 2 or 1 in 3 shot for me now. The long bank is a one in
25 at best and on some tables if the rubber is not right it can barely
be made.

The shot is on and I have over banked it one full ball wide right long
missing the entire pocket so it goes, but the enemy is the distance of
the shot trying to hit this tiny point which is not forgiving and
knowing if you push it you kiss out. To make the shot you gamble to
beat the kiss. It's a gamble you lose on.

A shot that has half of a chance is to 3 rail it up into C, but the
odds on this on one snap are again poor. I would have to have 10 snaps
to bet on it.

http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/preset/9ball.html

3 Rail bank of the 9.
START( %A[4\6%B[4\8%C[4\7%D[5\6%E[3\6%F[5\9%G[3\8%H[3\7%IC9O6%Pq3O3
%Qq8N6%RB6M3%Sr8B3%T^9_0%WE3O2%Xo8O5%YR5[0%ZD7O9%]q1E0%^R8[2 %eC5b3
)END

Here is the proper shot to make, it's called the Impossible shot, I
had it in the Tasa world championship in the mid 90's and it's in
the event still today. You aim at the right side of the 9 ball at B
trying to hit a l/3rd ball hit and cut, you hit left English which
squirts and deflects the cue ball out right of the aim line, then the
English takes about half way down and the shot curves back in. The
secret to the shot is to hit the rail first, then you kick into the 9
with the loaded English and the ball cuts into the left corner C
hugging the rail.

This is usually done with a jacked up cue using low left or high left,
1 tip out at 7:30 or 10:30, I shoot it with level cue 3 tips out at
9:00. When my eyes were good I used to bet you I could make it
shooting the cue ball not in front of the short rail at A, but from on
top of the rail. I got a lot of takers on that one. I asked for 10
snaps but would bet on as little as 5. Mike Sigel used to shoot this
same shot. This is a great bar box bet, but not a good on a 9'
table.

Once you master this standard impossible cut from the table bed you
should be able to make it most of the time in 3 snaps and in 5 most of
the time. If you talk some newbie into giving you 10 snaps you just
robbed him. Most will bet on the shot because they can not see any way
you can possibly make it. This shot was unknown in 1961 which was why
I did not pull the trigger on it. The shot did not emerge until the
70's when St Louie Louie began to shoot it in his shows and on later
video tapes for Meucci cues.

The Impossible cut, a trick shot.
*******************************************************

http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/preset/9ball.html


START( %A[4\6%B[4\8%C[4\7%D[5\6%E[3\6%F[5\9%G[3\8%H[3\7%IC9O6%Pq5O4
%Qq4L5%RC0L0%SA8[7%T^9_0%YC9Y4%ZC8P7%eA2b0%_D7N3%`R1M3%ap6O4 )END

This shot appears to be much harder but its not, it's the same shot,
you just hit it harder for the longer travel. No matter where this
thing is, hit that rail first just in front of that ball with a loaded
cue ball and it goes down.


http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/preset/9ball.html
An easy impossible cut.
START( %A[4\6%B[4\8%C[4\7%D[5\6%E[3\6%F[5\9%G[3\8%H[3\7%IC9V0%Ph2R3
%Qq4L5%RB9R5%SA8[7%T^9_0%Yr4[1%ZD4U3%eA2b0%_D3T9%`R8Q7%ag1Q9 )END

Once you learn the shot you will begin to use it a lot. Knowing you
can make it at the extreme angles posted above gives you great
confidence to twirl the OB in when you have a less than extreme angle
as this diagram show. I have faced this shot in some real critical
money and tin cup matches and pulled it off for victories at least a
dozen times and the house went wild when I made it. One note of
warning, the shot comes up a lot with you being doomed. If you make
the shot you buy into a dead scratch you cannot escape from so you need
to learn the angle out from this shot which is usually about 90 degrees
straight back up the table with the angle in. When the shot comes up
and the sell out is with it, play safe or 2 or 3 rail it, those are
your only options.

The impossible cut off of the rail, a show shot.
START( %A[4\6%B[4\8%C[4\7%D[5\6%E[3\6%F[5\9%G[3\8%H[3\7%IC7O9%Pu9O2
%Qu0M0%RC0L5%SA8[7%T^9_0%YC9Y4%ZC5P5%eA1a8%_D6N8%`[7L2%at7N8 )END

My old show shot I used to shoot off of the rail, just to give you boys
a little challenge today.

The story of the 8 balls on the break. The year was 1961, Kansas City,
Missouri. I had grown up playing in the old big time rooms on 5x10's
with 4 l/2" pockets on 1912 Brunswick tables in Kling and Allen's
and when it closed I went over to Millers at 12th and Grand downtown.
The original Fast Eddy and I came up in the same room together. Bennie
Allen was my first teacher, Mosconi was house pro there for 4 years,
Minnesota Fats was there so often out of Chicago he began to call
himself Kansas City Fats. Omaha Fat was a regular coming down out of
Omaha for weeks at a time. In that era, the top joints in the country
were NYC, Philadelphia, Chicago and KCMO. The top sticks traveled that
big time pool room circuit.

I was right in the middle of all these legends. When the big time
downtown rooms closed as they were doing all over the country and the
game virtually died in 1957 I moved out to 46th and Troost to Pauls,
there were 3 places there, one block away was a bar with bar boxes and
nice evening action, across the street was a down stairs room that was
pretty dead, no action, but it had a one pocket table with only 2
pockets and billiard rails. I used to go in there to practice my
straight rail I worked every day in order to attack the 9 ball. I
would go down to 31st and Troost which was a block from where I was
born and grew up now and then for action but I played mostly in Pauls
at that time. He had a perfect 10' snooker table, very tight tables
in perfect shape and the gamblers played on it during lunch for high
stakes. Omaha Fat was a regular in those games. So was an ex Canadian
national snooker champion. Keith, Tony, Martin Kiaman was the main
sticks you came in there after.

There was a loose pocket snooker table not in good shape and about 6 or
7 tables, all 1920's Brunswick's in a straight line, the room was
very narrow and small. All the pool tables were full sized 4x8' and
all had tight pockets which were common for that era, 4 l/2" was the
standard. The room was filled with nothing but gamblers and they liked
the tight pockets as well.

Early that year playing 8 ball, I made 8 balls on the break, the year
was 1961. I would never do that ever again. I have made 7 five times
since on 9' tables, but never 8. I was breaking with a 20oz Willie
Hoppe Titelist cue with a Chandeviert Champion soft tip. A few months
later I would make 8 balls again but this time it would be at 9 ball.
As there was no internet, no magazines and little communications or
books on the game at that time, over a decade would pass before I would
realize I had set two world records. At the time I just thought it was
an amazing luck shot which is what they both were.

I broke the balls like Lassiter did in Johnston City in 61 and that
break has been out of style now for decades, very unreliable, but can
produce a lot of balls going in because it causes secondary collisions,
meaning the cue ball, breaks the ball twice, which is necessary for any
big break to occur. Something weird has to happen to alter their
normal paths and get them all running into each other. With the pros
breaking off of the long rail, 8 will never be made that way and my
record will be the only one in pool to stand for all time. Who could
possibly make 9? The best that can happen is somebody may someday make
8 and just tie me but it has been 43 years and that has not happened.
If any body does and it's not in a room full of people at a tourney,
then my position is prove it, if you cant, shut the F up on it.

All I did then was gamble on my game, that was all there was. The BCA
went out of business and tossed all of their files in the dumpster in
57, Mosconi retired, Greenleaf and Hoppe died around that time and the
game went out and flat died as a sport. The world championships and
the US OPEN stopped in 57 and did not resume until 66.
I did not go to the first Hustlers jamboree in Johnston City in 1961 &
only 12 showed up but Omaha Fat talked me into going in 62 and I went
there every year and played in the back room until the joint was busted
by the feds. Every year the top 100 pool hustlers showed and played
for a month until only one had most of the loot. When they busted out
they went home. That was the game I came up into, back room gambling,
no world championship, no tour, no tournament, just match up in a smoke
filled back room. The world championship was that of the hustler's
world. Jansco's ran it.

There was another hustler in Pauls who was a couple of years older than
me and a notch better. I played him a lot for money and always lost.
It was usually close but he would always pull it out or my inexperience
would do me in. He was very good, very hard to beat and did not choke
for money. I was practicing hard and was working with Minnesota Fats
and Omaha Fat and was working on what they were teaching me. My game
was really coming on hard. I figure at that time I might had been 10th
in skill in the city. This is not Hahira, but a major pool center,
Kcmo & I was on my way. In a few years my skill level rose to about
50th in the country, few could or did beat me back then. The ones who
could I knew who they were and never played them. I was taught to only
hunt weak prey and be a locksmith.

I began playing the Kid at lunch 9 ball on the pool table up front
which was the gambling best table. Very tight pockets, nice new cloth.
Paul was an expert table mechanic and kept his tables playing world
class. We played through dinner and well into the evening. He would be
up 3 games, I would bring it even and it sea sawed back and forth,
neither could take out the other guy. It was now 2am and Paul said I
am going home, you are the last two bums in da joint, wrap it up or
move it some other place. I said, race to 10, the kid said Ok. I
said, for all I have on me, he said, read my mind. He won the lag and
ran 3 racks in a row. I fought back but could not cut the gap. He had
me 9-7 and it looked like I was toast and he broke, came up dry and I
ran out, broke, ran out, 9-9, hill hill. Every dime I have is now
riding on this snap. I figure the only way I can win is bust them big
and run out because the kid is so hot and on he is not missing any
thing.

I break with all I have and griped it and ripped it. Balls are flying
around everywhere, its like the table sprung a leak, they are falling,
running into each other and bouncing in, when the smoke cleared 8 balls
fell and the only two balls that did not were the cue ball and the 9
ball. When I saw where they were I just stood there dumbstruck with my
jaw dropped like a deer staring into headlights. How could it be
possible the 9 did not go and how was it possible I could pull this
leave. The kid and Paul busted out laughing so hard I thought Paul
would buy the farm. He said I have been in a pool hall every day since
1890 and that is the dam nest most unbelievable thing I have ever saw
bar none. These two can't shut up and they are rattling me as I am
mentally now beginning to panic badly.

All I can see is a long bank and I know that shot sucks the big weenie.
In those days, you did not play safe that was just not kosher.
That could get your thumbs broke if you did. When you had a shot like
this, you were supposed to shoot it. So I did, tried the long bank and
hung the 9 in the tight pockets. The kid taps the 9 in, picks up the
bundle of cash and waltzes out the door laughing like hell. I wanted
to die, I wanted to harm my self, but I chilled, got in my blue 58
Chevy impala with the 409 and double 4 barrels and pealed rubber for a
half a block I was so upset. I went home and got very bad drunk. That
did not help.

The shot, the worst roll of all time.
http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/preset/9ball.html

START( %A[4\6%B[4\8%C[4\7%D[5\6%E[3\6%F[5\9%G[3\8%H[3\7%IC9O6%Pq3O3
%Qq8N6%RB6M3%Sn7Z5%TC5Y7%WE9O6%Xo8O5%Ym5[0%ZD7O9%eA0`9 )END

I went around for years telling this story. The story of the worst
roll of all time. The story did not get out of the Midwest. In that
era I traveled 3 states in a route every month, Mo, Ks, Iowa and that
was my world then. Vegas, there was no strip and it was nothing then.
We went to Hot Springs, Arkansas and Johnston City, Illinois for our
action that was our Vegas then. I would do a trip now and then to
Vegas, or Chicago, NYC, Phil just to test my game a couple of times a
year. I changed my appearance constantly and never played any one of
note. I just played rich nobodies for money. Nobody knew who I was
and I kept it that way.

In 1973 my world expanded when I moved to Florida and now began doing a
monthly tour of the SE. I retired from gambling that year after 16
years of competition. I would become a casual player until 1993, when
I would get serious again and set my 3rd world record making a 10 rail
bank. A few years later I would begin traveling the entire USA, then
the Western Hemisphere, then the world.

As I got around during the early 70's I played in only C&W honky
tonks with bar boxes and avoided all pool halls and big time rooms. It
was easy picking taking out the drunks and cowboys; they had no clue
who they were playing. I was informed my 8 on the break had never been
done before and it was a world record, I was astonished to hear that.
I went back to KCMO to try and tie down the event with a signed letter
and when I got there Pauls was closed and he had has passed on. The
kid who was a real punk gambler and nice a nice person dumped on some
really bad ass people and they shot his ass. The only two people who
saw it were now gone so all I had left was my word on it and being a
giant nobody that meant I did not have she-yit. When I explained that
the punks went oh how convenient that lie is.

When important people hear about something a nobody did which I was
then, or see a nobody do a cool trick shot, they just steal and take it
for their own and there is nothing you can do about it. I have said
before, it's a very long line of thieves here.

Yes you guessed it several over the last 4 decades some big shot pros
heard the story and stole it as their own as they were the one to do
it. One pro backed off on doing that any more when I offered to part
his hair over it with a house cue and was serious as a heart attack
about it. The other one, no names, not only stole my 8 on the break
story but also my teachers story as well when Omaha Fat went through
the floor on game ball and put both in his book. This guy is now in a
wheel chair and later became a friend of mine so no name but he was a
very famous 14.1 champion and did a famous beer shot commercial on TV.
This guy being a straight pool guy all his life had a break like Crane,
Neither one could bust a wet paper bag at 9 ball, give me a break here.


Every time I publish this some punk comes along and goes oh I made 8,
sure you did punk. When I published this story on ccb and az a year
ago some punks put out a video showing them making all 9 on the break,
yes this was exposed as a computer hoax and not even a good one. I
have gone through 4 decades of people stealing this from me or calling
me a flat our liar and a fraud. In 1993 I had enough of this crap and
Issued a challenge, Byrne can verify it went out to everyone. It was
this; I own the 8 balls on the break at 8 ball and 9 ball period.
Nobody else has ever done it. If you have, stand up now or forever
hold your peace. If you say you have, I will challenge you for all the
money you can raise that you cannot pass a lie detector test you did do
this. I did this, you did not.

For any one who thinks I lie about this, here is your chance to expose
me as a liar and get rich in the process. I will accept any challenge
to say I did not, you must put up 10 grand, I will fade that with 100
grand in escrow, if I pass a lie detector test I win your 10, if I fail
the FBI test, you win the 100K. Nobody has every stepped up to say
they did it or to challenge me that I did not. I put my money where my
mouth is and figured that would shut every one up over that. Sorry to
say it did not and punks on the internet still harass me on these two
world records I cannot prove because who in the hell was running around
with a camera in a pool hall in 61 that did not work for MGM. In the
joints I played in, bring out a camera and most put on sunglasses or
ran to the bathroom. All I can do is pass a lie detector test that
said I did and if you don't believe I can show up on my door step.

All truth passes through three stages. First it is ridiculed. Second it
is violently opposed. Third it is accepted as being self-evident. -
Arthur Schopenhauer (1788

I did do it, I do own these world records and bet a fortune once to
prove it. That is the real story, as it was, so help me God with my
hand now on our family bible. Let me sign my name to that. Fast Larry
Guninger.

THE POWER SOURCE POOL SCHOOL WWW.FASTLARRYPOOL.COM
POOL LESSONS FROM A MASTER LEVEL INSTRUCTOR. 770-381-6609
POOL QUESTIONS AND FREE INSTRUCTION IS ON
WWW.BILLIARDS-POOL.NET in the ask the pros forum.
"Fast Larry" Guninger and Wonder Dog, trick shot shows and
entertainment.
WWW.FASTLARRY@xxxxxxxxxxxxx www dot fastlarry at bellsouth dot net

.

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