Re: faye,, pappy/now about Jerrys drama queen problems. ;-)

On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 17:19:14 -0700, the unknown flailer
<thuythu@xxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Oct 10, 5:25 pm, sky...@xxxxxxx wrote:
On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 06:04:18 -0700, me <oconn...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:





On Oct 9, 9:51 pm, sky...@xxxxxxx wrote:
On Tue, 09 Oct 2007 18:28:42 -0700, peanut4040 <peanut4...@xxxxxxx>
wrote:

On Oct 9, 6:57?pm, Mike Spurgeon <m...@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
sky...@xxxxxxx wrote:
Hey, nut - you must have not checked it in the loading area because if
you had, there's just ~no way~ it could have come open later on in the
airplane.

Yeah. Keep thinking that...

My bad, before anyone starts slinging mud. I had a loose closing
loop, and was putting tightening up off. Just kept putting it off.
It finally told on me.

Did you check your pin in the loading area?

I don't really know what "side" of this to come down upon.
Pin checks, and their usefulness, especially plane side, have
a mixed result in my experience. It's not that I don't advocate
them, and they can find trouble. They can also cause trouble,
and as some are suggesting here, they can miss "catching"
trouble.

In my first few jumps, whilst still under JM supervision, I
had some JM wanna be do a pin check on my student gear
with pins and cones. As some of us fossils remember, pins
and cones also had little bungies to pull the flap off the cones.
This JM wanna be "adjusted" my bungees to connect them
up wrong and packed me a nice little total. Fortunately,
my JM came along, saw him screwing with my gear and
caught the mistake.

I saw a guy do a "pin check" at altitude. It was an
unusual rig and as I saw him "fix" the pin I became
curious that he was clueless and asked a rigger on board
that I trusted to double check. Yup, guy had "fixed"
a nice little PC in tow for the guy.

An old Wonderhog got a pin check by me prior
to a nice little Wednesday night jump after work. It
was fine. It was fine right until the guy turned around
in the crowded C-182 and drug his pins against the ribs.
Pushed 'em right out and dumped his reserve. So much
for the power of the pin check.

I was on a plane when the TM behind me started
pointing at the rig in front of me. I saw what he did, a
pin with basically nothing sticking through the other side
of the closing loop. I tapped the guy on the shoulder,
said, "Don't move, your pin is about to come out"
at which point he rotated his shoulders and said "What?"
Obvious result ensued.

The conclusion for me after 20+ years is that
pin checks are fine but "prevent" nothing, and a pin
check is about as good as the gear and the checker.
I grew to the point where I would seek out certain individuals
if I wanted a pin check. I tended to ask for pin checks
after certain "incidents" which could be anything as
simple as a rough door jam, or me climbing around
the inside of an aircraft. Once, I asked after sitting down
"lazily" and dragging my rig against the wall. But I
consciously chose the person to do it.

Pin checks are like everything else in skydiving.
It's not that we can't do things to help protect ourselves.
It's that there are no silver bullets and competence still
is the most important thing to practice. And you can
still do everything right and stuff can go really wrong.

Skydiving. You could die having this much fun.

Kevin O'Connell

I agree with what you say and have either experienced or observed
similar occurances which you have described. That said, I believe
that just a check before gearing up and another before boarding also
can be ultimately described as -so much for a pincheck- when the gear
comes open sometime later, prior to the skydive - which has occurred
and is not unheard of. Just as a check in an airplane might, in rare
circumstances, result in a pin being dislodged or a malfunction being
enabled, a check on the ground can enable, and has enabled, premature
container openings and malfunctions. My contention is, checking the
pin prior to exit (in the airplane, usually turning onto the final
base before the turn onto jumprun) is not a bad idea. This contention
is based upon, 1) Gear F E A R

Yo, dumbass - instead of changing around what was written, why don't
you explain how checking gear on the ground isn't "Gear F E A R?"



But I've never seen a pincheck on the ground catch a problem in the
airplane.

Try not to flop around on the aircraft or otherwise be clumsy...

Yo, dumbass - how many preemies you have? More than me? I got none
(knock wood). You? Further, what makes you think "flop(ping) around
on the aircraft or otherwise be(ing) clumsy are the only ways to
dislodge a pin in an aircraft and further, explain how some pincheck
on the ground could identify a pin which has come out later on in the
airplane - or otherwise provide some sort of magical catchall for
situations where someone has "flop(ped) around on the aircraft or
otherwise be(en) clumsy?"

You
are being payed to Video, not create problems

And who says any sort of problem has been "created?" Further, what
sort of problem is not being "created" as someone's lines began to
unstow in the airplane? Not me who ever had to ride the airplane down
for lack of a pincheck but then, there's the nut. Waste of a
perfectly good lift ticket.



Hence, I argue that a pincheck in an airplane is not a bad idea with
rare exception, while someone else "argues" how it is a bad idea with
rare exception. I argue the remedies it has provided in the past are
more realistic in nature than the problems it has caused. Further, I
argue that someone else suggesting one argument is based in fear, and
as such, should be dismissed isn't an argument against (or even at
all)

...bsrp
...jlk- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If someone snags a flap, gets a foot up their packing tray or a
observant skydiver spots a pin flap up in the cabin a pin check is
warranted, otherwise you are just disturbing the rhythm of the load.

No, that's bull***. "Rhythm of the load," cut the crap, jackass.
It's "warranted" whenever someone feels they'd like one. "Warranted,"
yeah right <sarcasm, dummy>, been sitting, someone shifts, plane bumps
along, whatever - and it's "Gee, I wonder if a pincheck is
~warranted~? Better not get one because I'm not sure if it's
politically correct to do so right now" Explain how this "rhythm" is
so seriously compromised.

If its a maladjusted or worn closing loop......Well some people just
have to learn the hard way--I did with that para cord out of the DZ
trash pile....not to mention I've seen skydivers down on their knee's
counting the threads left on the wear point of a closing loop and say
three threads? Its good for another jump when a box of new rigger made
closing loops were up at manifest!...

So, explain how the "maladjusted or worn closing loop" angle in any
way supports your idea that with rare exception, checking your pin in
an airplane is a bad idea?


All the pin checks in the world
ain't going to help them--

Now, you're talking in absolute's again which is a weakness of yours,
but a pin check, if they so desired one for themselves, could very
well "help them" in that if they wanted a pincheck in the airplane and
got one in the plane and the pin was found out of the loop or even
just barely in the loop, if only because it's happened before and is
not unheard of, the pin could be placed back where it's supposed to be
and presto, they get to skydive, as opposed to riding the airplane
down, as the nut did.

--chances are they knew about it before
putting on the rig and boarding anyway.

So, they knew the pin was out or almost out, too? They knew this
about their rig, that the pins were either that way or would later be
that way in the airplane - they knew this "before putting on the rig
and boarding?" Hey, nut - how come you didn't know your pin was gonna
come out in the airplane before you bought the lift ticket?

No amount of pin checking is
going to help if the loops bad, for whatever reason they have already
decided to except the risk.

We're talking pinchecks not loop checks dummy and I've never seen
someone fix a frayed loop in an airplane - or in the loading area, for
that matter. But then, I ain't never seen a pincheck in the boarding
area catch a pin out or coming out in the airplane.

And you? I just think you should book the
Cessna & a Jump master to check you before exit and do solo's out of
it while the prepared skydivers doing formation work ride the twin.

No need, because the reality is, if I need a pincheck, I can get one
readily and easily.

At least till you become competent enough to trust your own gear and
packing

You're a coward, aren't you, Jinnie. The reality is, when it comes to
this issue, I say pinchecks in airplanes aren't a bad idea while Mike
has said he recommends them. So, why aren't you intimating that Mike
isn't "competent enough to trust (his) own gear and packing?" The
answer is, of course, Mike hasn't been kicking your ass when you are
getting things totally wrong - as you often are - whereas I have. So,
Mike and I can say essentially the same thing with the result that you
will typify what one person says as whatever politically incorrect,
self-serving crap of the moment you've seized upon, while being too
cowardly to make the same suggestion of someone else. You scared of
Mike, or is it you are just CHAPPED at me since I skydive while you
can't and ridicule you for being a jackass?


and oh yeah give the video money back while you're at it heh
heh 0~;)P ~Its mostly in your head anyway girly boy~

Ah, the predicted subject change - Jinnie's latest round of cramps are
cycling station to station, right on schedule. Naw, "giv(ing) the
video money back" would never do because if I did that, other people
who also provide sought after skills in skydiving, even some who make
a living at it, would be undercut and they would have to drop their
rates until they couldn't afford to provide those skills and in short
order, those skills would become unavailable while many would lose the
means which they've chosen to make their living and that would all be
to the detriment of many skydivers and skydiving as a whole. All that
union money you sucked in while doing nothing? Give it back, Jinnie.
You didn't earn it so you ain't due it.

....bsrp
....jlk
.

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