Re: The Democrat's Candidate

On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 00:48:06 GMT, Michael Wolf
<michael.wolf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

john_kulp@xxxxxxxxxxx (John Kulp) wrote in news:472131e3.79781780
@news20.forteinc.com:

On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 15:52:25 GMT, Michael Wolf
<michael.wolf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


The really telling thing is that even though the government is
gettting "the lowest bidder", they'll probably still end up paying
more for it than if it were on the open market.

Then how come we have very good health care over here in Belgium (and
everyone's covered), but still our per capita health expenditures are
much lower than the US?

Because:

A. if Belgium is anything like almost all of the rest of Europe, the
coverage is theoretical and costs are cut by rationing

The coverage is anything but theoretical and there's no rationing.

Europe is more than the UK. Looks like you don't know Europe that well.

Funny, I am only married to an European, travel there about 10 times a
year or so, have a son studying in Rotterdam. Right, I know nothing
about Europe. But apparently you don't, as Denmark and Sweden both
fit the profile I described above. Are they part of the UK as well?

Also, explain this about your great healthcare system in Belgium:

Euthanasia and Health Care Rationing in Europe
This thoughtful commentary, published in the Brussels Journal, worries
that Europeans, which have a form of health care rationing already in
place to keep public health programs afloat, may turn to euthanasia as
a form of controlling costs. Here is the key quote:

"In Europe there are medical treatments, operations or drugs which are
not available to persons above a certain age, or to persons who are
considered too sick, or to anyone at all. Political authorities,
claiming to be the guardians of solidarity in society, decide who is
allowed to get what kind of treatment, operation or drug. Soon
euthanasia might be the price the solidarity principle of the welfare
state imposes on those people whose health care is costing society the
most. Politicians in Belgium and the Netherlands have already granted
their citizens a "right to die" by means of a lethal (and cheap)
euthanasia injection. Is this a new "freedom" that the state, which is
constantly restricting every other aspect of our lives, generously
bestows on us? Or does it boil down to "economic euthanasia," which
enables governments to save money by eliminating those that cost the
welfare state too much?" (My emphasis.)

Such predictions do not warrant our becoming smug. We are experiencing
some of the same problems with managed care. The Bioethics Movement is
hot to impose health care rationing. If assisted suicide/euthanasia is
ever legalized widely here in the U.S., it too could quickly become
about money.

Think about it: The drugs for killing cost less than $100. It might
cost $100,000 to give patients proper care so they don't want
euthanasia. As I noted in Forced Exit, if the same percentage of
Americans die by euthanasia,as are (under) reported in the
Netherlands, it would amount to about 175,000 euthanasia deaths each
year. Many of these would be the most expensive patients to care for.
This is one reason I have often asserted that I that if assisted
suicide/euthanasia is ever legalized here, Wall Street investors in
for-profit HMOs will be dancing in the streets.




B. we are heavily subsidizing your drugs

No you aren't. I do know that drugs in the US are so expensive that
Canadians can sell them cheaper to you over the internet

You don't know what you are talking about. The reason that our costs
for the same drugs here are higher than in Europe is because large
price discounts are given to European countries because they negotiate
as countries and the drug companies make up the difference by
overcharging us here. That's a plain subsidy ace. What do you
think--that drug transportation costs here are huge?



C. preventive care is practically nonexistent

Shall I tell you about free vaccinations of children (from 3 months on),
free flu vaccinations for the elderly. free preventive dental care for
children, yearly free medical examinations through school, free
preventive breast cancer examinations,...?

Feel free. I get all the same here. Funny, my son also has a great
deal of trouble getting appointments for his daughter to see a
so-called house doctor (read non-pediatrician) in The Netherlands and
hasn't been able to get her a flu shot yet for this year isn't it?
And only an European paying outrageous taxes on income, purchases,
cars, etc. etc. would believe what you outline is free.



D. much more R and D is done here, even by European firms than in
Europe

Hmm, look up for instance Janssens Farmaceutica or Glaxo Smith Kline
once...

I have looked at many of these European companies. Go look at their
facilities in the US where they do huge amounts of research just like
I said.


oh, and R & D isn't the biggest cost for the pharmaceutical industry,
it's marketing and publicity.


So what? I never said that it was the largest cost, just a huge
expense that needs to be paid for and is offloaded here.
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: JAMA on FDA & PHARMA: Lack of vigilance, lack of trust
    ... > I think meds should be the same whether they are sold in Canada, Germany, ... to zero by stealing other counties' drugs, and their R&D dropped to 5% ... some of the high cost of generics is due to the ... for health care overall. ...
    (sci.med)
  • Re: JAMA on FDA & PHARMA: Lack of vigilance, lack of trust
    ... > I think meds should be the same whether they are sold in Canada, Germany, ... to zero by stealing other counties' drugs, and their R&D dropped to 5% ... some of the high cost of generics is due to the ... for health care overall. ...
    (sci.med.cardiology)
  • Re: The Democrats Candidate
    ... Then how come we have very good health care over here in Belgium ... Europe is more than the UK. ... The drugs for killing cost less than $100. ...
    (rec.scuba)
  • Re: Update on "Avian flu preparations, the US and Europe"
    ... Don't try find him on the US groups, nope he's in Europe. ... >> produce the best vaccine. ... > drugs, cancer treatment drugs etc. ... > dollar yearly cost range. ...
    (rec.travel.europe)
  • Re: Health Insurance
    ... It is going to cost a huge amount in the US to get coverage ... they base the premiums on what health care costs in the States :-). ... the insurance was automatically included. ... would be possible to buy an insurance in Europe at a much more ...
    (rec.travel.europe)
Loading