Re: Deadliness in the deep - thank you US Navy


Doug Frederick wrote:
> <janusz_w@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:1131541135.936749.36350@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

> >>> Now you crossed the border, lack of knowledge is excusable, but
> >>> telling publically lies regarding Holocaust in many countries, yours
> >>> included is subject to prosecution.
> >>> For god's sake read about the subject first.
>
> And I provided you with a dozen cites that show me to be absolutely
> correct.
>
> So it is you telling lies publicly.
>
> I think your knowledge of history is not so good.
So far I provided you with several links to expand your knowledge,
unfortunately you haven't done your homework. As I said before and
I'll repeat it now there were incidents of collaboration with Nazis,
thats true and known traitors were punished during WWII and after it.
Even now in my country special institution is working to investigate
all unknown facts about crimes commited against Polish nation during
WWII and during communist rules. For the clarification nation means all
citizens (German and Jewish ethnic included).
If you want to read go to www.ipn.gov.pl and read for example about
Jedwabne which name you have heard, compare the official statement with
your sources and finally make your own conclusions.
Incidents doesn't mean rule. And statement " that the majority of
Polish Jews ...." is a lie.
Probably you don't know that Nazi's made special law for Poles helping
Jews. It was death penalty. Even giving some bread or water to the Jews
was a crime.
Why do you think the Nazis had such a law? Believe me a lot of my
countrymen lost their lives helping Jews. This penalty wasn't only for
adults. If found the whole family, together with children was subject
to execution. Don't you believe? Go to Yad Vashem, use google, etc.,
try to understand what happened and why, what was the background etc.
Of course there is all the time one question what could had been done
to save more Jews.
But this is different story.

>
> >>Janusz, with all due repsect, you must remain realistic: anti-semitism
> >>was thriving in Poland already before WW II and (alas) too many Poles
> >>were involved in the rounding up of Jews.
> >
> >>I think that the anti-semitism is still a problem today.
>
> That avoids the point succinctly.
>
> >> Remember how
> >>quickly Walensa denied the rumors that was of his ancetors was of jewish
> >>origin? How people found that Jacek Kuron did a great job, but pity that
> >>he was a jew? How Mazowiecki was not trusted because he was a jewish
> >>intellectual? How they treated Edelman?
> >
> > Michael, I don't deny that there were some scum, a lot of them were
> > persecuted after WWII and some of them hanged.
> > What made me furious is Popeye's statement
>
> My statement, which was proven accurate, came after your repeated
> accusation that we were somehow more responsible than you.

Acurate? You don't know what you're talking about. You cited some info,
even not knowing who the people are or were and what happened to them,
why and when.

>
> You initiated this entire line of discussion by making that accusation.
>
> >>>>> It's a fact that the majority of the Polish Jews exterminated were
> >>>>>fingered by Polish collaborators, so stop trying to wipe that blood on
> >>>>>my
> >>>>sleeve
>
> > Only arrogant, ignorrant and somebody sick with hate could make such a
> > statement.
>
> Cited, and true.
>
> Only the arrogant, sick, and hateful could deny it.
At last oyu agreed with me.

>
> >Simillar propaganda was used for years to undermine any
> > efforts to explore ghaststly past. Good example we can sometimes find
> > in an American press, where journalists state that the Jewish nation
> > had been exterminated in The Polish death camps, not in Nazi German
> > death camps, located on occupied Polish territory. Simple manipulation
> > and what an effect!
>
> > In my opinion everybody spreading hate against other nations should be
> > eliminated from the modern society.
>
> And ----heeeeeere's----- the -moneyshot- you've all been trying to
> mitigate.
>
> Jan, who is clearly wrong, say "I think Popeye should be ELIMINATED
> ELIMINATED ELIMINATED from society."
>
> Right after his paragraph about the terriblr anti-Polish DEATH CAMP
> propaganda.
????????? Sorry, but now I don't understand you.

>
> You're gonna have to hire Chilly to spin that one.
>
> >And for it there is not such an excuse as Freedom of Speech etc.
>
> Jan has repeatedly insinuated that -all- us Americans are less than
> educated and have some lack of understanding of history.
Not all. As I rememer in U.S. schools world history is not one of the
most important subjects, am I wrong once again?
>
> Being American, at least we know what free speech is.
Thank's to you this wright was denied to us.

>
> > Each nation has the right to live in
> > peace with full respect to its history, achievements etc. and rights of
> > all minorities should be respected.
>
> >Unfortunately quite often the way majorities treat minorities is deserved
> >by the latter.
>
> Not even Chilly -and- JOF could get a piroette out of that.
>
> >Expecially if
> > minority members strongly demonstrate their difference, don't want to
> > integrate into the whole society, doesn't follow the rules etc. And
> > usually after the clash between them people recognize that no party was
> > 100%.
> > But mostly it's too late
>
> Especially for the Jews.
Sorry, but once again I have problems to follow, you. Do you understand
what you tried to comment


>
> > I do not say that there were problems between Polish and Jewish
> > nations, some of them had historical, some were based on myths some
> > based on cultural, religious differences.
>
> You can keep reading, but it's all unrelated mitigation and spin.
>
> >Fortunately the problems is
> > being discussed, and there is a lot of good signs, that soon anl
> > problems between the two nations will be only ghosts of the past.
> > regarding Polish-Jewish and American -Jewish relations, anti-Semitism,
> > and so no before, during WWII and now I found nice links I hope that
> > they acceptable even for Popeye, because they are from the U.S. source
> >
> > Anti-Semitism in Poland
> >
> > http://www.tau.ac.il/Anti-Semitism/asw2003-4/aleksiun.htm
> >
> > http://www.tau.ac.il/Anti-Semitism/asw2003-4/poland.htm
> >
> > Antisemitism In the U.S.
> > http://www.tau.ac.il/Anti-Semitism/asw2003-4/ouzan.htm
> > http://www.tau.ac.il/Anti-Semitism/asw2003-4/usa.htm
> >
> >
> > After couple of last postings, which reached level of pre-kindergarden
> > (My father is taller, my teddy-bear is nicer, it is my sand-box and
> > only mine, you are ugly etc.) it is time to make some conclussion,
> > especially taking into consideration the original subject of
> > discussion. In my opinion a lot of stupid, things were done in human
> > history, a lot mistakes were done even during our live on this planet
> > it is time to do as much as possible to avoid them in future and clean
> > what can be cleaned. Any discussion like only we (Americans, Poles,
> > Martians etc.) are righteous and others are just waiting to attack us
> > it is just paranoia are senseless and paranoiac. The only way to do
> > something good for the humankind is wide cooperation between nations
> > and xenophobic ideas presented by Popeye mayve are good for some
> > podunk. World is getting smaller, the problems bigger.
> >
> >
> >
> >>OTOH: the first monumnent erected in Warszawa after WWII was in
> >>remembrance of the uprising in the ghetto
> > yes the first one in 1946. The final in 1948.
> >
no comment on that??? :((((((

.

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