Re: Deadliness in the deep - thank you US Navy


<janusz_w@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1131406335.590588.31280@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

> Dear Scott believe me that using offensive language is not a good way to
exchange any views, ideas.

You are not afraid to offend us with your nationalistic accusations.

> Before you start next blind attack on me sit down take a deep breath and
relax.

The blind attacks were started by you.

As I have previously requested, please provide us with cites of you
arguing this point in predominantly British or Russian forums.

Look at the subject title, for god's sake.

> If you can't then it's
> worse case and you need proffessional help.
> You implore me Antiamericanism, but in this case it's a wrong address.
> I know a lot of your countrymen, respect them and hope that they also
> have warm place in their hearts for me as I do.
> Antiamericanism is being created by people like you who in their minds
> are the true patriots ready to respond for any true and imagined
> threats against your country. But believe me that there is small
> difference between patriotism and nationalism and I suppose that you
> don't know it.

I suppose it is -you- that obviously doesn't know it.

I am a patriot and a nationalist, and proud of it.

You, however, do not seem to realize that you are as well.

You come here to pontificate from an assumed moral high ground that we've
seen many, many times in the past.

Just the -general nature- of your questions is arrogant, ignorant, and
insulting.

>Blind, dumb attacks are not making any good for your country ant its image
all over the world.

As you have clearly demonstrated here, there is little or no accuracy or
honesty, or especially, self-accountability, in the views of other people
and nations about our country.

We don't get too alarmed about it.

>Without proper knowledge you are creating false image of arrogant, ignorant
and dumb Americans.
> Stop hurting your country it doesn' deserve it. I don't have any doubt
that your knowledge of WWII history is marginal

Why would you assume, as an previously occupied nation and continent, that
your history is more accurate, or your understanding of that history is any
better than ours?

You people in particular didn't even have free speech or a free press till
nearly the end of the century, and hardly even then.

The very notion that your, or any, European history is significantly more
accurate than ours is the very height of arrogance.

> so really take some good history book read it and think it over.

Take your own advice.

> History is not only simple chain of events.
> It is also important to know what was the impact of this events,
> political decissions on future. Another important factor the same
> historical event has different role for another nation.
> And sometimes is very diffcult to say that something is white or black
> usually there are many, many shadows.
> Nobody who knows even a little about history of WWII have any doubt
> that the US military helped to end the war and paid for it with lives
> of its soldiers. But there are also many other questions for example:

> why the US joined the war so late?

We didn't.

We weren't late for our purposes.

And our contributions in hard numbers of men, material and effort were
sometimes -tenfold- those of countries that preceded us.

>Why did almost nothing to stop holcaust?

Because we were unaware of it for the most part, and weren't physically
present to do it until late 1944 or 1945.

Why would a European ask -us- that question?

Why didn't -your- countrymen stop it?

Oh, wait.

Many of your countrymen were the -perpetrators- of it.

Do your history books gloss over that, like the German ones do?

Have you asked the Russians why -they- didn't stop it?

Of course not.

>Why the US president agreed to divide Europe into zone influence, what
enabled Soviet dominance over several formerly independent countries?

Because at the time, the Russians were our allies, and deserved their
piece of the pie.

Who were we to say anything about it, at that time?

> Why for many European nations WWII ended not in 1945, but in 1989, 1990,
1991 etc.

Because you people are content to be conquered.

You seem to expect us to arrive and restore order in any number of
countries at your convenience, and in fact you levy blame when we don't, but
when we do it in Iraq, we're fascist imperialists.

But we did fight, and win, the Cold War, with little or absolutely no
gratitude from many of the countries freed from the yoke of Communism.

And especially those within the tangible threat of that yoke.

> So please if you want to touch the subject read some good books improve
> you knowledge beyond Hollywood movies and start thinking not only from
> US perspective but also from point of view of other nations.

You, seeing America through Hollywood movies, are under more of a burden
that us seeing history through them (which we don't, by the way).

> In the years just after WWII people believed that dumping chemical
> weapons into deep seas is the safest way of disposing it. Huge number
> of chemical weapons left by the Nazi Germany created really big problem
> for the Allied Powers and they did what was according to their
> knowledge the best solution they dumped it into deep seas. It was done
> not only by the US Navy, but also Soviet, British, French. Some of
> them did their job in proper way and now we know exact position of the
> dumped weapons, but some were just scared and tried to get rid of their
> deadly load as fast as possible (mostly Soviets). Others, like 42 ships
> under control of US Navy were suprised by strong storm and were
> scuttled (positions of 27 of them is known now). After 50 years in
> salt barrels, shells are badly corroded and are leaking. These chemical
> weapons of course are not gas anymore, but even in solid form they are
> as poisonous as before.

That's a little better, but not what your first post read.

Right?

"Chemical weapons dumped near Swedish coast are not of Scandinavian
origin. Allied Forces during WWII captured German depots where
thousands of tons of chemical weapons were . If you are interested in
the story look here.
http://lists.grida.no/pipermail/ballerina-l/2003q4/000042.html";

"So it's not US materiel, but between others dumped by US Navy."

Even though your own cite proves many others are involved, you ignore it
and single out the U.S. Navy.

> You wanted some examples of accidents here you are

Sorry, I need verifiable cites in English.

Three incidents world wide in a 60-85 year period just isn't that
alarming, and hardly attributable to the U.S. Navy or the U.S. government as
you would have us believe.

Especially in view of the apparent volume of munitions dumped.

> 1955 chemical bomb with mustard gas on the beach in Poland (Darlowo)
> 155 kids were exposed to the toxin several badly burned.
> 1985 seven Danish fishermen were hospitalized after they hauled aboard
> their boat old shell with mustard gas.
> 1997 four Polish fishermen were hospitalized after founding in their
> nets solidified mustard gas.
> I've personally seen couple codfish with chemical burns
> Altogether according Helsinki Commission studies since 1995 in
> fishermen nets were found weapons with appox. 3300 pounds of active gas
>
> As a reminder average depth of the Baltic is 170 feet. Most of the
> seabed is in reach of fishermen nests.
> All this accidents show that dumped weapons are not only in known
> locations in deep places, but also some of them is scattered elsewhere.

Then you need to get busy, eh?

> The problem is real, somebody created it, but now there is no
> volunteers to remove this rusted, leaking containers. As a good
> example there is a project to build natural gas pipline from Russia to
> Germany. It will cross known areas of dumped chemical weapons. The
> Russians refused even to clean the area under pipeline.
>


.

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