Re: Honest thoughts about HD radio

Jake Brodsky wrote:
Telamon wrote:
That is an interesting take Jake but the path is the fact that the technology is overcoming. Radio is a technology that was created to overcome communicating intelligence over distance. It can be done different ways and with the advent of digital electronics there are even more ways to engineer a solution to this problem but lest people forget every technological solution to a problem has its down side. The down side can be using more resources like power or bandwidth to increase the reliability but that is the price to pay for the more reliable connection.

Use technically precise words. I'm an electrical engineer, I'll keep up. Your wording suggests there is a down side, but you don't say just how much worse it would be.

Distance, bandwidth, reliability, and cost are all parameters to over come in any communications path. These parameters are all interrelated. Distance invariably costs more money no matter what the medium the intelligence is transmitted over.

Again, cut the platitudes and cite some real numbers and sources.

And so to the chagrin of any and all digital radio proponents here is the crux of the matter: Digital transmission is no better than its analog counterpart using the same power and bandwidth. It is that simple. Digital radio is not better then analog in that it sounds better or is more reliable using the same or less power even according to some proponents because it is an impossibility.

I'm going to call you on this. Just how is a full double side band with carrier an improvement over a digital transmission? The full intelligence is transmitted twice over within the same bandwidth and the carrier wastes at least half of your power.

Now is it possible that digital transmission mode could be better? The answer is yes it could. A digital mode could use more bandwidth for things life FEC (forward error correction) or many other schemes of sending redundant information or you could bump up the power to increase reliability but none of this is being done.

Again, I'm calling you on this platitude. I think you're dealing with out of date information.

The Trolling morons and the ever-present infomercial don't seem to understand the technology so we get the constant barrage of BS. These idiots "think" that a digital mode magically causes a radio transmission path to be "better" and that is a physical impossibility.

Yes, we know there are trolls out there. Please don't feed them. I'm trying to keep this discussion civil.

You may have heard some ignoramuses make all kinds of nonsense up. I'm asking you not to sink to their level and to put some hard references on the table.

Digital mode radios will use more power than its analog counter part period. If the same (or less) transmitted power is used for the same intelligence (audio) then the reliability or quality will be no better. This relationship between distance, power, bandwidth and intelligence can not be magically overcome by some modulation mode.

Umm, what do you mean by "use more power"? Do you mean to say that the receivers will need heat sinks? Or do you mean that the transmitter will need to occupy a wider dynamic range/bandwidth? I'm guessing the latter.

Modulation isn't magic. Yes, there are limits. When you're ready to talk about Shannon's limit, lossy and lossless CODECs, Reed/Solomon, BCH, and Turbo Codes, and where distance fits in to any of these equations, I'm ready to listen.


Jake Brodsky


Telamon lost me when he said:

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Radio is a technology that was created to overcome communicating intelligence over distance.
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As a sad aside, judging by the lunatic fringe war mongers on the AM talk shows, he may well be right. They've succeeded.



mike
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