Re: Antennas led astray

Michael Coslo wrote:

Cecil Moore wrote:

Michael Coslo wrote:

All parts of any given galaxy are not moving toward or away from us at the same speed, unless the galaxy is perfectly perpendicular to us.


True, but consider that the red shift frequencies
are discontinuous, i.e. quantized.

Is your red-shift issue about the red shift itself, or about the magnitude of the shift? And if "variable seconds" is the culprit, how are blue shifted stars accommodated in your model?


My issue is that red-shifts are not necessarily
100% Doppler effects.



Of course there is gravitational redshift too, but I don't think that is what you are referring to.

I think you are trying to say that time is variable (forgive if I err) This means that the speed of light is also variable if only by relation to that variable time element

Doppler effect is readily observable at audio and RF wavelengths. It is widely accepted that the effect continues at light wavelengths.

Any effects that alter Doppler at light wavelengths should also be noticeable at to wavelengths. I have not heard of any such, have you?

This then says that we are not in the "fastest time" zone, because there are celestial bodies that are blue shifting toward us, or perhaps not,they are just in a different "time zone"? ;^)

BTW, I erred in my perpendicular statement above. I forgot about transverse Doppler shift that we would indeed have in a galaxy at right angles.

- 73 de Mike KB3EIA -

There is an interesting (hypothetical) effect - and maybe this is what Cecil is talking about. Two systems; A and B, we're A. System B is moving away from us at relativistic velocity. Sodium yellow light from system B's street lights looks red from where we're standing in system A. Lets say we can also measure the atomic transition frequency of the sodium atoms in system B's street lights and discover that it resonates at a lower frequency compared to our reference frame. [Note that if the velocity between the two systems is indeed relativistic, then visible light will be shifted down into the infrared. Also note that if we could observe the diaphram of a car horn as it approached us, we would see that its frequncy of oscillation visually would be higher than its doppler shifted audible frequency.] If we assume that sodium behaves the same way everywhere in the universe (which we usually do) and it transitions at universally the same frequency everywhere, measured with respect to its own reference frame, then there must be a difference in the length of the unit time between the two reference frames in order to explain the apparent observed frequency difference. We usually assume the Doppler effect is linear with velocity, but temporal effects are assumed to increase very non-linearly as the speed of light is approached. So at modest velocities the apparent shift would be all doppler, but at relativistic velocities the temporal aspect would become more significant. I believe this is one explanation for the apparent 'acceleration' effect, where you look far enough out and things appear to be accelerating away from us, not just moving away.

73, ac6xg


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Relevant Pages

  • Re: Antennas led astray
    ... but consider that the red shift frequencies ... Doppler effect is readily observable at audio and RF wavelengths. ... we're A. System B is moving away from us at relativistic velocity. ...
    (rec.radio.amateur.antenna)
  • Re: Will Somebody PleaseTell bz What an Inertial Frame is.
    ... otherwise the velocity curves would be sine waves. ... Einstein didn't say any thing about Algol. ... The ONLY data you have is the velocity curve and the ... that from the shift, and the shift says c+v in vacuum or c in a medium. ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: Through a glass darkly
    ... and how is the shift ... | The light tries to bump the charges around and the charges fight back ... introduced by velocity differences *other* than the change of medium. ... Sick sick scream :-) ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: Farmers in orbit
    ... Systems will not result in a MONDian shift. ... Pioneer anomalous acceleration is sunwards. ... Hubble shift represents a recession velocity exactly equal to Doppler ... Distant galaxies have their rotation curves measured. ...
    (uk.business.agriculture)
  • Re: Its all so simple
    ... shift is simply incorrect. ... If you do not understand where Doppler ... shift comes from in relativity, ... speed and have a certain physical separation. ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)