Re: Current across the antenna loading coil - from scratch


Cecil Moore wrote:
Are you actually saying charges flow two directions at the same time
and place in any given snapshot of time?

Cecil wrote:

Water waves flow two directions at the same time using the same
water molecules. EM waves flow two directions at the same time
using the same carriers. Waves in a rope travel two directions
at the same time using the same molecules. It is a common physical
occurrence. Hint: The carriers of the waves are NOT the same thing
as the waves.

Current is by definition is the flow of charge.

A current of one coulomb per second is one ampere.

By definition and by physics, we cannot have charges flowing two
directions at once at one point. Even if we had some strange mechanism
in the conductor allowing this, radiation and the phase of EM fields
would be determined by the net charge movement.

This is precisely the current we would measure with a current meter
sampling the magnetic field, it is the current we would measure
sampling radiation, and it is the current that would determine phase of
the radiation or induction field.

So please expain to use, even if we allow a conductor to have TWO
voltage gradients of opposite polarity over the same linear area of
conductor, why Cecil's Current is important.

Also, tell us how we can measure and prove in a repeatable test, the
two-way charge movement exists.

The current we would measure at any place with a current indicator and
the phase of that current IS the actual current flow.

What direction is that current flowing when its phase is not
changing relative to the source phase? This is a key question.

Either you are creating diversionary conundrums, or you should be able
to explain how we can have charges moving past a point in a single
conductor that are moving both directions at one instant of time. Tell
us how that happens. Tell us why we suddenly cannot use drift velocity
to calculate current, or current to calculate drift velocity.

The almost universal measurement method of current is magnetic.
Suddenly Cecil's Theory of Current renders universal measurement
methods obsolete!

NEC uses current and voltage, not wave theory. You attempt to use an
engine that uses what you say we can use to prove we are wrong in using
current when there are standing waves!

Don't you think you should have understood the NEC engine used in the
program before using it to prove we cannot use current without
reflections? Eznec uses the very same thing we can measure with a clamp
on meter, so it appears you are the one who is doing something wrong.


It is impossible to have different currents at each end of the inductor
without having displacement currents, or what Reg calls "radial current
flow".

We have different currents at each end of a wire quite often
without having displacement currents. Does having zero amps
and one point and one amp 1/4WL away mean there's displacement
current in a transmission line?

Yes, absolutely. If you don't understand that, you'd better review
basic transmission lines and quit wasting everyone else's time giving
assignments.

When you figure out the answer
to that one, you will understand why the coil can have negligible
displacement current and still have zero amps at one end and
one amp at the other end, just like the wire or transmission line.

Nonsense Cecil. I'd wager almost everyone here understands transmission
lines better than that!

It appears you have wandered off into the land of reflections without
also understanding basic circuits. The transmission line can be
represented as a network of series inductors and shunt capacitors, just
as an antenna (even a single conductor) in space can. The only reason
current changes is displacement currents (the electric field) allow
current to decrease by providing the third path.

If we stopped that third path, the current would not change.

We can analyze any stub with EXACTLY the same results wave theory
produces. Other than imperfect precision in both methods, the results
are the same.

The minute any of us start thinking there is only one model, either
circuit or wave theory, that works and we cannot fit the other method
with the same results, it shows something is wrong. Your model, if you
rule out displacement currents, cannot work. Your model, if it requires
net current flow that does not register as a magnetic induction field
or as a thermal effect, and if the radiation phase and level is not
tied to the same ampere-feet we measure with conventional
instrumentation, is a fantasy.

Go back to what makes charges move, and explian how thay can move two
directions at the same time in a very small crossection of conductor in
terms of the wavelength.

Answer the question Cecil, how can we have charge movement over a small
length of conductor (in terms of the wavelength) in two directions at
the same time, or a drift velocity in two directions at once?

73 Tom

.

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