Re: OT: One man's Nietzsche to another ...

The observation that science has its roots in magic is not original with
Nietzsche, and is evident from a study of the history of ideas.

Philosophy (of which science, or 'natural philosophy,' is a part) and religion
both originate in man's need to understand the universe and his place in it;
originally, they were not distinct from each other, and for some people that's
still the case (witness the 'intelligent design' controversy). Technology is an
effort to subject material things (living or dead) to man's will by physical
means. This is applied science. Magic is an effort to subject things (whether
material or otherwise) to man's will by supernatural or spiritual means. It is,
in a sense, applied religion. The Abrahamic religions all teach that this kind
of application is possible, but ethically wrong and forbidden.

A lack of differentiation between magic and technology is seen as late as the
early modern period, as for example in such works as G. B. della Porta's "Magia
naturalis" (my copy is of the edition by Plantin, published at Antwerp in 1558).
This mixes up such early technologies as gunpowder and fireworks, invisible
inks, and primitive hydraulics, with methods of divination, charms, etc., such
as one might find in the works spuriously attributed to St. Albertus Magnus.

Science, characterized not simply as a collection of facts but as a system
underpinned by the scientific method, doesn't really appear as such until the
early eighteenth century. Of course, technology ("natural magic") is much
earlier, and in most cases developed before the advent of modern, 'correct,'
theoretical explanations. Pyrotechny is an obvious example but there are many
others. Metal smelting and refining, textile dyeing, paints and pigments, and
the genetic manipulation of plants and animals by selective breeding were all
known from prehistoric times, even though the people who accomplished all these
things did not understand how they did according to modern theories. Even the
steam engine was developed to a high level of sophistication well before the
thermodynamics that underlay its operation were properly understood.

I suppose the first technology that was demonstrably developed AFTER the theory
that explained its possibility, an in direct consequence of it, was wireless
telegraphy, which Hertz, Branly, Marconi et al. developed on the basis of Clerk
Maxwell's theoretical physics.




In article <1146257533.062774.47640@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
fargowest@xxxxxxxxxxxx says...

Da Wiz closed with:

Do you believe that the sciences would ever had
arisen and became great if there had not beforehand
been magicians, alchemists, astrologers and WiZards,
who thirsted and hungered after abscondite and
forbidden powers?
Friedrich Nietzsche
Die fr=F6hliche Wissenschaft, IV,
1886

To which one might supply this:

"But science, spurred on by its energetic notions, approaches
irresistibly those outer limits where the optimism implicit in logic
must collapse. For the periphery of science has an infinite number of
points. Every noble and gifted man has, before reaching the mid-point
of his career, come up against some point of the periphery that defied
his understanding, quite apart from the fact that we have no way of
knowing how the area of the circle is ever to be fully charted. When
the inquirer, having pushed to the circumference, realizes how logic in
that place curls about itself and bites its own tail, he is struck with
a new kind of perception: a tragic perception, which requires, to make
it tolerable, the remedy of art."
Friedrich Nietzsche
The Birth of Tragedy 1872





donald haarmann wrote:
"John Reilly" &lt;johnr@xxxxxxxxx

| Anyone have experience with lead dioxide smokes? Evidently it was used
| in the late 19th century as a military signal smoke (yellow brown);
| probably similar to realgar smokes but easier to get.
|
| John


------
From da data base :-



SMOKE ORANGE
ELLERN #133
POTASSIUM/DICHROMATE 35%
LEAD/DIOXIDE 50
MAGNESIUM 15

Smoke brown
Ellern #134
Cupric/oxide 50%
Lead/dioxide 35
Magnesium 15

Smoke pot red
Allen [Hitt]
Potassium/nitrate 21 pts
Sulphur 15
Lead/oxide red 6
Antimony/sulphide 18

Smoke orange
Chemical Formulary 3-299
Lead peroxide 50%
Potassium/dichromate 35
Magnesium 15
USP 1,975,785

Smoke brown
Chemical Formulary 3-299
Copper/oxide 50%
Lead peroxide 35
Magnesium 15
USP 1,975,099


As noted by Mon. Swisher both of the Chemical Formulary (Vol. 3. 1936) co=
mps. are also in Ellern.




donald j haarmann
-----------------------------
Do you believe that the sciences would ever had
arisen and became great if there had not beforehand
been magicians, alchemists, astrologers and WiZards,
who thirsted and hungered after abscondite and
forbidden powers?
Friedrich Nietzsche
Die fr=F6hliche Wissenschaft, IV, 1886










=20
=20
=20
=20
=20
=20
=20
=20
=20
=20
=20
=20
=20
=20
=20




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NewsGuy.Com 30Gb $9.95 Carry Forward and On Demand Bandwidth

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