Re: There's Just No Way This Is Legal

In article <1123704258.018750.217290@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
hhc314@xxxxxxxxx says...
>
>Hi again Scott,
>
>Agreed that my comments addressed specifically the commercial sale of
>kits to produce firecrackers and M80s and not activities of a pyro
>hobbiest.
>
>Still, the production of devices classified as explosives by the BATF
>raises some very troubling questions about legality. The problem being
>that under the laws of many states unlicensed possession of an
>EXPLOSIVE presumes felonious intent, hence is prosecutable. (See the
>laws and regulations of New Jersey, Massachusetts and New York for
>examples of this just as examples.)
>
>Granted that this law was originally put on the books back in the
>1930s, with illegal possession of dynamite and similar explosives by
>gangsters in mind, but with the BATF declaring flash powder legally to
>be an explosive places it into the same prosecutable category as
>illegally having dynamite or C4. To my knowledge, such laws do not make
>any effort to distinguish possession of such materials by a
>recreational hobbiest from possession by a terrorist or gangster.
>Criminal prosecution is left to the discretion of the police/disrict
>attorney.
>
>Evidently the BATF made little or no effort to integrate their
>declaration of flash powder being an explosive with existing state
>laws, hence seriously clouding the water on this issue and leaving it,
>at best, a gray issue.
>
>Worse still, possession of a BATF license without holding a
>corresponding state license may offer no protection at all from state
>prosecution.
>
>Here's an example from Massachusetts Sate 527 CMR:
>
>"Section 35: No person shall have in his possession or under his
>control any bomb or other high explosive...Any officer qualified to
>serve criminal process may arrest without a warrant any person
>violating Section 35."
>
>This certainly should give many of us pause for thought and discussion,
>and in my mind is definitely a gray area.
>
>Kindest regards, Harry C.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Scott wrote:
>> Harry....thanks for the info.
>>
>> I was more referring to Lloyd's comment about needing an ATF license to make
>> binary explosives.
>>
>> I don't have to knowledge about the legalities of kits, I was just
>> interjecting for the clarification of the group about the legalities for us
>> hobbiest to make our own fireworks (explosives), without a license.
>>
>> Scott
>>
>> &lt;hhc314@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> news:1123623511.092857.249190@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > Scott, while I won't do your research into chapter and verse of federal
>> > law, I will tell you that the sale of kits to make what amounts to
>> > firecrackers and M-80 type devices have been federally outlawed since
>> > circa 1960.
>> >
>> > Prior to that time, such kits were widely advertised in the classified
>> > ad sections of news stand distributed magazines such as "Mechanics
>> > Illustrated", "Popular Science", "Popular Mechanics" and similar mags.
>> > When federal law was enacted to prohibited the sale of such kits, the
>> > ads for these items vanished for a rather obvious reason.
>> >
>> > Anyone hoping to circumvent long established restriction on the sale of
>> > such items by means of 'cute labeling' should be prepared with deep
>> > pockets for his eventual legal defense costs and, those efforts
>> > failing, be prepared to submit to the lustful desires of inmates named
>> > 'Ramrod' or 'Bubba', his future cellmates!
>> >
>> > About the only thing you should claim in the way of a defense for
>> > someone attempting to publically engagage is such an illegal business
>> > enterprise is that it is obvious that his 'elevator doesn't go to the
>> > top floor'!
>> >
>> > Kindest regards, Harry C.
>> >
>

Harry -

The current ATF license application requires the applicant to disclose whether
he holds required state licenses (if any) to engage in the regulated activity.
It is my understanding that ATF does check with the state and will not issue a
federal license if application has not been made for a required state license.
This was not always the case.

ATF has repeatedly ruled that a Federal explosives license is necessary only if
the explosives are to be used in commerce, i.e., making fireworks for
non-commercial personal use does not require a Federal license. Federal storage
and some transportation regulations still apply, as well as any and all state
and local statutes, ordinances, and regulations.

Surprisingly, there are states (mostly the more rural and western ones) that do
not have any regulations on these subjects. Others simply incorporate Federal
regs by reference. Minnesota statute used to refer to "jobbers and wholesalers"
which are not categories recognized in Federal law or regulation. Some years ago
the state legislature harmonized state fireworks and explosives laws so that
statute recognizes that Federal licensure is sufficient for display fireworks
manufacturers and users and the state now uses the Federal terminology.

States typically (except for a few of the more populous and socialistic "blue
states" such as your own) have no regulation of smokeless or black powders for
personal sporting small arms use, and accordingly the only applicable law or
regulation is Federal in those jurisdictions. It's important to note that the
Federal law exempting such propellants from the usual explosives regulations
does NOT extend to their use for fireworks.

.

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