Re: Leice R9 System Goes Digital--What A Monstrosity!
- From: Tony Polson <tp@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 12:48:25 +0100
Gordon Moat <moat@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I know you are enthusiastic about 4/3 gear, but this camera does nothing
for me. It is a nice industrial design, and I would not doubt the
potential for sales, but it does not seem to meet what I would want in a
camera, nor what many professionals would want.
Actually, I am not that enthusiastic about 4/3, having sold my Olympus
outfit some months ago and bought a Canon 5D. But the Leica/Panasonic
4/3 project seems aimed at the exact sector of the market that you
said Leica should address.
I wish I could share your optimism about Leica. Initial M7 sales were
quite good, then declined. Don't get me wrong, it is a great camera. The
direction of Leica marketing is too much towards collectors, and area in
which I somewhat agree with Erwin Puts that the MP is a collectors camera.
It is only to be expected that M7 sales will decline. The MP was
perfectly timed to offer a traditional manual exposure M body to those
who wanted a simpler M. So it appeals to collectors? Who cares, as
long as someone keeps buying them!
Let me put this a different way; every Zeiss ZM lens or Zeiss Ikon body
that has sold has (I think) taken sales away from Leica. Okay, so it is
mid priced between Voigtländer and Leica, and this is the other thing I
mean by my statement, that Leica is not addressing any middle ground in
rangefinder cameras.
I agree that the lenses have taken some sales from Leica. As for the
bodies, they have probably taken more sales from Voigtländer than from
Leica. Just remember that, underneath that sleek Zeiss exterior,
lurks a cheap and nasty Bessa.
It was originally distributed by Hasselblad. Sales were so far below
projections that a desperate Zeiss has taken the distribution
in-house, despite not having a sales network for 35mm cameras for
several decades now. In the meantime, Zeiss Ikon sales have dropped
even further and the future of the project must be in doubt.
Well, I will respectfully disagree with your assessment. Let's see, 3500
Ikon bodies delivered by the end of January this year, with an average
of 2.5 lenses sold for each body. Current manufacturing capacity is 1000
bodies per month, and so far no backlog inventory. So it is not the last
reported annual Leica M sales of near 22000 bodies (at higher prices,
implied higher profits), but sounds like the numbers are decent for a
new film camera product. I suppose some might not be happy that they are
not outselling Leica, but could that really have been the goal?
The project was driven by Cosina and Hasselblad, not by Zeiss.
I would rather have the Leica, mostly on the basis of the 0.85x
viewfinder, though I like the ergonomics more. A Zeiss Ikon would be a
good back-up body. I see it as a replacement for the Konica Hexar RF in
this market.
The Zeiss Ikon is not remotely as good as the Konica Hexar RF. It is
a cheap and nasty Bessa dressed up to look lime something it isn't.
I don't see Voigtländer as bad, and base that on a few working
photographers using them in difficult conditions. That Zeiss have their
own quality control and a longer viewfinder base length are better aspects.
Quality control is not an issue. The basic design is the issue.
Whatever it appears to be, inside it is just a plastic Bessa.
Making up ground means they are addressing a market that Leica now
ignore. I honestly think Leica could make a simpler version of the M6/MP
with reduced framelines, no meter, or other aspects that could provide a
lower cost M body; interestingly they sell a meterless MP only in Japan
as a special model. I doubt the lens prices would ever go down, and
there would be little that could be done to influence those costs.
If people want a cheaper Leica there is a very healthy market in used
M bodies at very reasonable prices; both my M7 bodies cost less than
half the new price. I would not consider a new Zeiss Ikon (Bessa)
body as a serious alternative to a Leica M body. The Konica Hexar RF
was a serious alternative, despite some problems with the metering.
Erwin Puts, Roger Hicks, and a few other people speak quite highly of
the Zeiss ZM lenses, and not just the two made in Germany. Cosina in the
former of Voigtländer, through Kobayashi-san are carving a niche with
Voigtländer, and functioning somewhat like a smaller Contax arm that
Kyocera use to address.
Erwin Puts seems very anti-Leica now. This started when Leica
terminated their contract with him. His opinions of the Zeiss glass
must be viewed in the light of his recent tantrums - he threatened to
close his site, stated that photography as we knew it was at an end,
and basically threw all his toys out of the playpen.
I have the greatest of respect for Roger Hicks. However, on his own
admission, his lens tests are not thorough, and rather than providing
an expert analysis he merely expresses user opinions.
More detailed optical tests of the ZM lenses go far beyond Puts and
Hicks and they reveal some serious flaws, especially vignetting.
Perhaps this is to be expected at the price.
I think it is far too early to judge Zeiss with their recent lines.
At this early stage, for Zeiss to have had to take over distribution
from Hasselblad of the Zeiss Ikon and ZM lenses is a disaster.
Hasselblad have already fallen out with Leica. Now it's Zeiss. In
both cases, Hasselblad's headlong rush to tie up with Fuji is the
direct cause.
.
- References:
- Re: Leice R9 System Goes Digital--What A Monstrosity!
- From: Gordon Moat
- Re: Leice R9 System Goes Digital--What A Monstrosity!
- From: Tony Polson
- Re: Leice R9 System Goes Digital--What A Monstrosity!
- From: Gordon Moat
- Re: Leice R9 System Goes Digital--What A Monstrosity!
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