Re: Canon A710 IS discontinued??

On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 03:18:21 -0700, Tom Delaney wrote:

Many are not, but some are. The sock puppets went berserk when I
mentioned that while caution might not be necessary, there was at
least a slim possibility that the CHDK code might not be totally
innocuous.


I don't think it could not be innocuous, because it's not a firmware
upgrade. So there were actually two chances of it not being totally
innocuous, Slim and None, and Slim just walked out the door.

There's no way for you to know whether the firmware will be
updated or not, despite your smug assurance that it won't happen.
As I said a few months ago, while it's very unlikely that the
firmware would be updated, you can only be sure if you not only have
the source code (it is available), but that you also compile and
assemble it for yourself, since there's no guarantee that a
distributed binary CHDK file was produced from "safe" source code.
How do you think Canon cameras perform firmware updates? Some
cameras do it through the USB cable. Examples are some Sanyo,
Olympus and Ricoh cameras. Ricoh has a second method to update its
firmware, and this is what Canon and Nikon use. You copy the binary
file(s) to a flash card and insert it into the camera. So when you
trustingly place your CF or SD card into a Canon Powershot after
copying binary CHDK file(s) onto the card, there's still a remote
possibility that on some future date the camera's firmware might be
updated, even though it only loaded into the camera's volatile
memory each previous time you installed the CHDK code. Say "Hello"
to Slim, because he just walked back through the door. Note that
I'm not saying that this will ever occur, just that it's a
possibility, and trusting Canon owners are free to assume negligible
risk. But it's better to realize that a possibility of risk exists
than to blindly believe those (like you) that don't say that a
firmware update is very unlikely, but say that it's impossible.


That didn't stop me from installing it and praising some
of its features. The one I particularly liked was putting the
battery voltage in the display.


This feature is of limited value, in fact I'd say it's probably the most
useless feature. All the cameras that CHDK works on are powered by AA
batteries. Knowing the voltage would be moderately helpful for alkaline and
lithium AA cells, because the voltage is pretty linear in terms of capacity.
However I think most users of AA powered cameras are using NiMH batteries,
and NiMH batteries have a very flat voltage for most of their capacity. NiMH
batteries are at full voltage for 80-90% of their cycle (at least according
to Thomas Distributing), so the voltage isn't a good indicator of capacity.

It's of limited value to you, because your knowledge of batteries
is also limited. I've used NiMH batteries in PDAs and the rather
uniform voltage during use is a fact of life. They also used
software "hacks" to display the battery voltage (to 0.01 volts),
just like the Powershot displays. With a typical life of about 35
hours per charge, I knew within a small number of minutes when the
battery warning indicator would pop up, and also within a few
minutes of when the voltage would drop low enough to cause the PDA
to power off. You also know little of Canon's AA powered cameras.
Some are good for fewer than 100 shots. Others can get up to 1,600
shots per charge. So some really should use NiMH batteries, but
others, such as the A6x0 series get such long life from the
batteries that alkalines are used by many owners, and they can often
go many months on a single set of alkalines or a single charge if
using Eneloop type NiMH batteries. These cameras can display
pictures or movies on the display for up to 20 hours, for both
alkaline and NiMH batteries. The point of having the voltage
displayed isn't to use it in order to squeeze the last few minutes
of life out of the battery's capacity, but to say "Oh, the battery
only has about another hour or two of life left, so now would be a
good time to replace them so the battery doesn't run out while I'm
taking pictures." This would work well whether alkaline or NiMH
batteries are used.


I have a Nikon D200 with the MB-D200 battery grip. If you use AA batteries
you have to go into custom settings (CF8) and choose between alkaline, NiMH,
lithium, and NiMn (I don't even know if you can still buy the NiMn
batteries) in order for the battery indicator on the camera to be
meaningful, but with NiMH batteries, the level indicator goes from full to
empty in a very short time. I now use only the EN-EL3e packs which are
finally available pretty cheaply ($17 from Shentech, $26 from Amazon).
Still, I appreciate Nikon putting in the custom function to at least make an
attempt at an accurate level indicator. If the Sanyo Eneloop batteries
increase in capacity and fall in price, they'll be a good alternative to the
EN-EL3e battery, though managing twelve AA batteries (six in the camera, six
spares) is probably not worth any potential monetary savings. I think I'm
like most users, that like the security of being able to use AA batteries in
a pinch, but that have never been in that pinch because the Li-Ion batteries
last so long.

I have a Ricoh Caplio GX which is one of the few point and shoots that can
use either AA cells or a rechargeable Li-Ion battery. The 1800mAH/3.7V
Li-Ion battery takes about 3x the number of shots as the NiMH AA batteries,
even though technically it should only be about 1.25x as many shots. Again,
I tried the AA batteries, but gave up on them because the Li-Ion was so much
better, and the Li-Ion packs were not too dear.

Anyway, sorry for digressing, but the point is that the battery voltage
display of CHDK is probably the least useful feature, especially if using
NiMH batteries, unless it has settings for different types of AA batteries,
which I doubt.

Lord, but you're a rambling man. Your father wouldn't happen to
have been a gambler down in Georgia, would he?

If you feel that the battery indicator is useless for you, then
it's useless for you. For me it's just the opposite. I find it to
be a useful feature, and it doesn't have to have settings for
different battery types. You just have to know the camera's cutoff
voltage, and be familiar with NiMH (or alkaline) battery
characteristics and how you'll be using the camera, such as whether
you'll be using the flash or not. I am, so it works for me.


Are you a complete fool? I do back up posts with references,
probably more than most. But it's absurd to think that references
or the lack thereof have anything to do with encouraging the forger.

No it isn't. The forger(s) target(s) you because even your non-forged posts
are often not only rambling, but also contain wrong information, as well as
because you have such an obnoxious attitude. You're playing right into the
hands of the D-SLR trolls. Trolls thrive on attention, and they like to pick
on posters that are "know it alls that know nothing," which is what your
posts make you out to be. Change your attitude, do some research about
image stabilization, batteries, and noise before you post, then you won't be
a target for the trolls. You'll also gain some respect from the non-trolls!

This is a pretty good description of yourself, don't you think?
You've demonstrated several areas where you know less that you
assume that you do, about batteries and CHDK's potential. Your
reason for why the trolls chose to target me is totally off the
mark, and I explained why so there's no need to repeat it.

.

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