Re: Nikon D80/200 - Canon 30d

newsmb@xxxxxxxxx <newsmb@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Jun 3, 5:21 pm, Wolfgang Weisselberg <ozcvgt...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

You claim: D200 images + (Noise Ninja or NeatImage) are as
good or better than 30D images. Right?

YES.

So how about D200 versus 30D WITHOUT (Noise Ninja or NeatImage)?

And -- even more interesting --- D200 images + (Noise Ninja or
NeatImage) versus 30D + (Noise Ninja or NeatImage)?

After all, comparing apples and apples or oranges and oranges is
a good idea.

Which is why dpreview writes:

The dpreview guys are so far out to lunch, especially when it comes
to noise, that their opinions don't matter to me one iota.

Ah.
So what makes your oppinions more valuable than dpreview's
oppinions? After all, dpreview has been doing that stuff for
years and years with well over a hundred cameras. (Which doesn't
make them right, but at least increases the chance they know what
they talk about.)
What are your references?

It couldn't be that Canon uses a CMOS sensor --- which is a
completely different technique to the CCD sensor of the D200 ---
and it couldn't be that a completely different technique just
_might_ have a different type and strength of noise!

The CCD vs. CMOS argument does not exactly work in your favour.

See:

http://www.shortcourses.com/how/sensors/sensors.htm
http://www.dalsa.com/markets/ccd_vs_cmos.asp
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/question362.htm
http://www.dalsa.com/shared/content/Photonics_Spectra_CCDvsCMOS_Litwiller.pdf

Very nice.
You have now conclusively proven that Canons CMOS-sensors can
not exist. You now owe me a new camera.

If we, instead of theoretical oppinions, go and look at the
reality, you might find that Canons CMOS sensors have mostly
colour noise, while Nikons CCDs produce luminance noise ...

"Resolution and noise have almost nothing to do with real
image quality". Didn't even read the first word.
Resolution. That alleged 10 MPix, you know?

I agree with Rockwell 100% on this issue. The D200's slightly higher
resolving power is not particularly meaningful in real-world
photography. You're the one who's engaging in pixel-peeping here, not
I. I was merely pointing out that you can't have it both ways. If
you're going to say that resolution is "irrelevant" then you should
apply the same logic to noise.

That's because you don't understand.
Resolution will not be a factor if you print or view
downscaled images.
Noise _can_ and _will_ be an issue at the extreme edges of
camera capabilites, even in smaller images and/or in print.

Look for example here:
http://weissel.smugmug.com/photos/160107906-728x728.jpg
and you can see the noise despite Noise Ninja and downsizing by
5:1 (i.e. 25 original pixel give one output pixel).
1:1 extract of the furnance here:
http://weissel.smugmug.com/photos/160106676-L.jpg
1:1 extract of the furnance/tent/bellows meeting here:
http://weissel.smugmug.com/photos/160107212-L.jpg

Feel free to guess the (effective) ISO.

So? Any old FD macro will work very well as a macro on an
EOS camera.

Except mine works for general photography with aperture-priority, 2D
matrix metering and TTL flash all working perfectly.

Ah, yes, Nikon, where you don't get matrix metering when the
camera doesn't know how fast the lens is ...

-Wolfgang
.

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