Re: Another Coat Color Question

One bright night in the middle of the day on Sat, 15 Oct 2005 06:09:33
+0000 (UTC), in rec.pets.dogs.breeds Liisa Sarakontu
<lsarakon@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

>I've gotten my info from Finnish web pages and one magazine article, and I
>think that the "separate strain since 1950's" is supposed to be the
>official version of the breed history here.

Hmmm. I wonder if what they really meant to say was something like
this... Since whites have been DQ'd from the AKC conformation rings
from the late 1960s on, that white GSDs have been bred more to each
other rather than to members of the total GSD gene pool as a whole.
That would make better sense to me than some mystical "strain" of
white dogs. Still, it's like I said before... Although white fanciers
might *prefer* to breed mostly white to white, there really isn't
anything wrong with going back to the dark dogs whenever a breeder
feels like it because, to AKC, they are all GSDs anyway. :/

>so if German GSD club had still accepted white dogs, there
>would have been no possibility to get White Shepherd recognized.

Exactly! Of course... If the German GSD club didn't mind white dogs,
there would be no need to ever have had WSs recognized. I'd bet that
-- as late as the mid-to-late '80s -- if they were polled, the
majority of wGSD breeders would have said they much preferred to show
in the AKC rings as GSDs than to pursue a separate breed. But one can
only ram one's head into a brick wall so many times before saying
"Screw that!!"

>So the modern European White Shepherd population has to have colored dogs
>very close in many pedigrees. Most of the first Finnish White Shepherds
>were imported from Switzerland and France, but I know for sure that some
>were American imports - I happened to meet one few years before FCI
>accepted the breed, and it wasn't meant to be just a "fancy pet" but
>breeding stock.

Well, I can't say how close up in the pedigrees the dark dogs are.
Just that they are definitely there. They are probably nowhere near as
close up as our North American white dogs, for obvious reasons. I've
heard it said that none of the reputable registries/kennel clubs over
there would accept any white dog from the USA or Canada if there was a
colored GSD within the first three generations. That's just something
I've heard said from what would be extremely reputable sources.

The truth is that nearly *all* continental European White Shepherds
came, originally, from the USA and Canada. A few came from Great
Britain. But their current gene pool was derived from basically a
handful of imported dogs from North America. Granted, they might have
had a few different dogs in the first few generations. But they all go
back to a single dog -- I believe he may have been imported from
Hawaii -- as well as dogs from the most prominent American and
Canadian breeders of that day.

>FCI can accept only one kennel club from each country, and in your case it
>happens to be AKC.

Yes.

>I think that European WS fanciers wanted originally call the breed White
>German Shepherd, but the German breed club really had a cow and so they had
>to figure out another name without any hints to Germany. (Just like it
>seems that Australian Shepherd can't get the FCI recognition without a name
>chance, because Australia is an FCI country and they refuse to accept that
>name for a breed which is not Australian.)

Yep. They definitely wanted to keep the "White" and the "Shepherd" in
there. Using the French was a handy way of doing that and still not
piss off the Germans! ;) So... the official name became Berger Blanc
Suisse... White Swiss Shepherd.

>Just a few months ago I heard somebody telling about the white GSD she used
>to own. At least two people immediately said that "Don't call it that, you
>mean a White Shepherd" and the original person had a really hard time
>explaining that she REALLY was meaning a white GSD, born from registered,
>colored dogs.

LOL!! We have that here too!! ;)

>Thanks for this interesting history lesson, Karen!

Anytime, my friend!! :)

*~ *~ *~
Karen C.
Spammers be damned! I can't be emailed from this account! So there...

"You have no power here!
...Be gone! Before somebody drops a house on you too!"
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Downsize That Breed! Part 1
    ... looked purely GSD, but about 25-30 lbs full grown. ... Much as I love sporting dogs because of their love and life and fun ... of observing breeds at obedience events and hunt tests. ... > If you were going to downsize from a German Shepherd Dog, ...
    (rec.pets.dogs.breeds)
  • Re: Meet Mollie
    ... >> foster a GSD. ... She does a darned good impression of a bear rug most of the ... Who needs Trading Spaces when you have dogs? ... Molly looked like she was going to try to hump Punk, ...
    (rec.pets.dogs.behavior)
  • Re: Wikipedia: Sniffer dogs
    ... police dogs (which are almost always German ... Police dogs are almost always German Shepherds? ... etc), accelerant detection for arson investigation, narcotics detection, ...
    (rec.pets.dogs.behavior)
  • Re: Food
    ... My dogs parents were imported from Germany and are registered down to the ... Okay, no offense, but German dogs aren't magically more "pure" or better ... breeds and they've been wonderful pets--I just didn't buy them. ...
    (rec.pets.dogs.health)
  • Re: Another Coat Color Question
    ... ever looked more closely at the pedigrees of these dogs. ... > bloodlines needed for FCI recognition. ... So the modern European White Shepherd population has to have colored dogs ... FCI rules say that every breed has to have that "mother country". ...
    (rec.pets.dogs.breeds)