Re: Prong collar convert

Jeff Dege wrote:
On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 07:03:13 -0700, FurPaw wrote:

I'm not too fond of positive punishment methods, particularly when they
are (a) inconsistently applied (b) severe (c) delayed or (d) applied
without concurrently training the dog using positive reinforcement to
make an incompatible, desirable response.

I don't know any trainers that rely upon positive punishment. Every trainer I've seen who used corrections, whether with choke chains, prong collars, ecollars, or rattle cans, used a mix of positive and negative reinforcement.

I'd wager that most people who get a dog for the first time use mostly PP to try to get their dogs to stop undesirable behaviors, and that this is one major contributor to the number of dogs who end up in shelters.

As far as trainers go, I hope you're right. My experience is limited; we worked with three trainers for Dylan, and one of them used PP (we stopped after 2 classes with him). Now, this trainer called it 'correction.' To me it looked liked application of a strong aversive stimulus around the neck when the dogs pulled or otherwise misbehaved - not just a quick pop of the choke collar, but a good hard jerk and sometimes hard pulling. His 'correction' for jumping entailed grabbing the dog's front paws and "gently" stepping on her toes. His 'correction' for biting and mouthing involved sticking two fingers down her throat. These all met my criterion for positive physical punishment - application of an aversive stimulus with the intent of stopping an undesired behavior.

I've often heard people use the term "correction" (like the above trainer) in a way that I would define as "punishment." How do you define "correction," and what is it that differentiates between a "correction" and a "positive punishment?"

(I'm not trying to pick nits here - my perception is that there's a pretty fuzzy line between the two, and I'd truly like to understand. So the first place to begin is with definitions and examples - to ensure that we mean the same things by the words that we're using.)

FurPaw

--
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched,
every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense
a theft from those who hunger and are not fed,
those who are cold and are not clothed."
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

To reply, unleash the dog.
.

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