Re: New budgie accomodation: any good live plants to use?

"Ted Byers" <r.ted.byers@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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On Mar 11, 2:48 pm, "Owly" <use...@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
"Ted Byers" <r.ted.by...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

news:08936194-5f0f-4164-9430-25e64213148b@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On Mar 11, 11:52 am, "Owly" <use...@xxxxxxxx> wrote:



"Ted Byers" <r.ted.by...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:9907d670-3730-42db-a9ee-5ce11c6866c7@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I just bought four budgies. These are the first since my family last
had them when I was a kid (I now feel so old I can almost remember
fighting off T-Rex to I could enjoy my bronto-burgers - but that's
another story).

Anyway, I bought the budgies, and a cage that the vendor claimed is
large enough to accomodate half a dozen or more budgies.

As I have read that the birds may easily get bored, I got them in
pairs, so they can have social interaction when I am too busy working
to pay much attention (I work in an office in my home, and their cage
is in my office, so at least they see me 90% of the time).

In any event, I thought the cage is large enough that I could make it
more interesting for them if I put a small houseplant in the cage with
them. Obviously I'd need to use something that is not only not toxic,
but something that would be beneficial even when the birds have access
to it 24-7. It also would need to be able to grow despite being
'pruned' by the birds. I'd like it to be sturdy enough that it could
provide more interesting perches than the simple wood presently
there. In a sense, it would be like having the birds make a budgie
bonsai.

I know I like to enhance my environment by adding plants (I have a few
standard Cymbidium orchids with a lovely scent when they're in bloom,
but they'd never fit and I don't know if they'd be toxic to the
birds). I would expect the budgies would appreciate having their
environment enhanced with a plant or two, if I could find one that
would enhance their general health and could thrive in spite of the
chewing the birds would do.

Does anyone out there know of plants I could find in the garden centre
(or Home Depot or Walmart) that would be suitable? Something that
would always remain suitable for a 10 to 12 cm pot? Or are the birds
doomed to a boring cage filled only with dead wood, plastic and metal?

Any advice would be appreciated.

I wish I had advice. I like your idea, but know nothing about plants. I
was kind of holding off, hoping that someone would reply, but didn't
want
you waiting in limbo - this group has slowed down considerably and
sometimes
replies are in short supply...

Anyway, I do offer natural branches for perching/chewing/peeling but I
order
them and so don't really know what they are made of. I also have offered
pots of wheat grass which they love - it comes in kits using something
in
the pot that is bird-safe. I recall mentioning the keeping of a potted
plant in a cage once (not here), and received some semi-hysterical
replies
about mold in the dirt and unknown substances and how I'd surely kill my
birds off if I ever did such a thing. Well...the internet being what it
is,
there's a lot of unfounded hysteria out there...but I never did it only
because I simply don't keep plants, of any kind, in any part of my
house.
So I became bored with the idea before I acted on it :).

I hope someone will chime in, I'd love for you new little budgies to
have
such a nice environment in which to live! :)

owly

Hi Owly

Thanks for this. I was beginning to wonder.

How well does the wheat grass regenerate after being 'grazed', or do
your birds just eat it all and force you to replace it?

I had thought of grass, because I know budgies are herbivores with a
taste for grass seed, but I don't know the grasses at all, and I found
a site that mentioned a number of grass species that are toxic. I
have never seen the kits you mention, and the staff at the stores
where I have seen grass seed know nothing about grass (except for its
use in making lawns).

The one staff member at the pet store where I birds, apparently the
only one who knows anything about them (though she's just a teenager),
told me her grandmother gave her a small, potted shrub that her
Cockatiel just loves, but she couldn't tell me what the shrub is or
give me a sense of its size. She did recommend spider plants, but
said that it is best to let the plant hang over top the cage, and only
let the baby plants (produced on runners) into the cage.

The notion that there'd be significant risk of mold in the potting
soil affecting the birds seems ludicrous. I am an ecologist by
training, and thus know a bit about the basics of plant cultivation
and animal husbandry. While there can be pathogens living in soil, a
well cared for houseplant will only have a positive impact on air
quality. Nasties in the soil can get in the air only if there is a
sufficient wind to suspend the soil particles. Fungae fruiting bodies
can put spores in the air, but they're highly unlikely if the plant is
well cared for. The only other way a houseplant in the cage could
harm the bird (assuming one has identified one that is not only not
toxic but beneficial regardless of how much it is chewed: some plants
that start out non-toxic become toxic if grazed, and that is because
the cost of making the toxin is justified only when there is a
significant risk of being grazed), is if the bird ingests the soil and
there are pathogens in the soil to which the birds are susceptible.
Again, the probability of such pathogens being present is vanishingly
small if the plant is well cared for, and planted in good quality
potting soil.

I suspect that wild budgies, like most animals that are so small, are
much more likely to die from predation than anything that might be in
the soil supporting the grasses, and other plants, they land on. I
have seen, in the ecology literature, information about pathogens in
nest boxes, but nothing about wild birds being adversely affected by
the soil in their natural habitat.

As I scientist, I could easily set up experiments to see what
commercially available houseplants are suitable, if I had the budget
for it, but I'd rather not sacrifice so many birds to find out. In
such experiments, I'd undoubtedly find out about which plants are
always toxic and which become toxic after some amount of damage, and
which are always healthy for the birds, and of these which will thrive
in the presence of the damage routinely cause by the birds. Doing the
experiments would be quite costly both in terms of dollars and in
terms of bird lives. If I knew a vet who knew something about birds,
I might have considered conducting such an experiment in an academic
setting in partnership with the vet, so the vet could intervene as
necessary to prevent bird deaths and restore any sick birds to
health. Alas, my present situation precludes such an initiative.
Surely there's a vet, or a grad student in a vet college, who has or
can easily find the kind of information I seek, without the need to do
such experiments.

Thanks again. You are proof I am not the first to consider such a
thing. Surely there is someone out there who has relevant experience
and can advise on what plants to consider. One can only hope.

Hi, Ted,

I do know of someone who is quite well-versed in this area and grows
plants
especially for her cockatiel and her linnie. However she doesn't come to
usenet. She is an award-winning plant-grower and an avid bird keeper as
well, I don't want to put her email address out on usenet but one of her
websites is livingwithpetbirds-dot-com and there is probably a link to
email
her there, if all else fails. She has already done much of what you're
talking about (although her birds aren't caged most of the time, but her
apartment is FULL of bird-safe plants for her birds to enjoy - I've been
there, it's like a jungle - lol) and will have great information. If you
do
contact her, you can tell her Sherry sent you :). And you and she can talk
latin names for plants all day long :).

owly

Hi All,

Thanks.

I did contact Diana (Sherry's friend), and she gave me permission to
share the following:

"I provide my birds with Sansevieria (mother in law tongues) plants.
These plants can take almost anything. Had one female cockatiel who
worked to bend down the leaf so it was horizontal. She liked just
sitting on her perch.

"My cockatiel loves Coleus--just lost the last plant--that I buy by
the flat in the summer and pot up for them to enjoy during the winter.

"Dracaena is another "bird safe" plant. As far as I know, orchids are
safe too but too expensive for me to let the birds tear up.
Cryptanthus is another bird safe plant but my birds didn't bother
them.

"I tried growing Tillandsia's but they didn't have a chance. The birds
thought they were the latest play toy and had lots of fun destroying
them.

"I don't know where you are but the local Meijer's store (big chain
out of Grand Rapids, Michigan) carries organically grown herbs in
their produce department. I check them every time I visit. My
cockatiel dearly loves his rosemary plant. He'll pull a leaf off and
chew on it for several minutes--always reminds me of grandpa's cows
chewing their cud. I always check to see if there are any rosemary
available and buy 2 or 3 of them. 1-for the birds and 1 for another
room in the house where it is protected. At $1.99 a plant, it is a
really inexpensive yet healthy bird toy.

"Here's a link to check out additional plants--I just wish they would
use the scientific name so I could be sure we were all talking about
the same plant. Take ANOTHER look at the url--it is NOT
plannedparenthood like I thought when I first found it.
http://www.plannedparrothood.com/plants.html

"If you have a place to grow in the sun, invest in a good sized pot of
hens and chicks (sempervivum species). Plant some in the garden for
lots of growth--plant up a small pot for inside.

"At one point in time, I bought some "Haworthia" plant starts off Ebay
from a nursery that uses no pesticides. Liberty cockatiel took care of
these plants for at least a year. He would walk around his container
of plants tapping each one and then he very patiently mixed the
chicken grit I use for a mulch on my succulents into the soil with his
beak. I call him my "Farmer bird". Unfortunately, while I was in rehab
with a new knee, the plants got mealy bugs and my Dad didn't notice
because he's never grown succulents. He just thought the white spots
were part of the plant.

"My lineolated parakeet (true parakeet--not a budgie) from Central
America likes hiding in my plants more than chewing on them. Of
course, he is a bird of the forest canopy and most likely hids under
leaves when the big birds come around.

"Tip: Check the list out of safe plants and then start some cuttings
that you can be sure have NEVER had pesticides on them. This pesticide
problem is one reason I now tend to stick to coleus and herb plants.
You just never know and the store often doesn't know the conditions
plants were grown in.

"I've tried growing "wheat grass" and my birds promptly rejected it.
Check into "sprouting" seeds. You can often find watercress. I'll grow
a package of these and both birds seem to enjoy the peppery taste.

And then, after I requested permission to share the information: "You
may share the information, but please, not the email address. They
might want to visit livingwithpetbirds.com to see pictures/videos of
my very spoiled fids.

"I forgot to mention that I've tried thyme and basil. They both
ignored the thyme. The basil plant was totally destroyed in just a few
minutes. Couldn't really tell how much, if any, they actually ate.

"Suggestion for your budgies: start offering them organically grown
greens. I am able to buy Earthbound brand but I suspect Canada will
have some brand available. They come in plastic "clamshells" and cost
about $3. There are different mixes including spring greens, spring
herbs, baby greens, etc. I feed a small handful everyday and the
container lasts about a week. Have to be sure to check expiration
dates. Don't feed ICEBERG type lettuce--just use the dark green
varieties. May take some time to get your budgies used to it but they
will be healthier.

Clearly Diana has had good luck with her beautiful birds having easy
access to her plants.

So, Sherry, there are a few plants she mentions that you may want to
try if you want to revisit the idea. ;-) If your thumb isn't so
green, you might try the hens and chickens first. I remember my
parents having them in their garden when I was a kid oh so many
decades ago, and they were almost impossible to kill. I have never
tried to grow the other plants she mentions, except for rosemary
(which is itself relatively easy to maintain), so I don't know how
easy they are to grow or to kill. For myself, I may try rosemary and
coleus first, and maybe some wheat grass if I can find it. I don't
recognize the other plants she mentions, but a quick search with
Google shows me I have probably seen many of them at local garden
centers as well as both Home Depot and Walmart, so they must be
readily available.

I am in Ontario, a couple hours north of Toronto, so the vendor Diana
mentions isn't here. There are just a couple local garden centers and
the Home Depot and Walmart (neither of which are likely to have staff
who know much about either plants or animals. :-( The garden center
closest to me, actually within walking distance, has several people
who know plants reasonably well, so I may check with them.

Cheers,

Ted

I am DEFINITELY keeping this thread. I've teased Diana about her plants but
she knows her stuff when it comes to the birds. I do see the hens and
chickens in our local nursery and will try some upon the recommendations of
you both. IDK what the opposite of a green thumb is, but that's what I have
:).

Great thread, will definitely use the info and revisit the idea!

owly


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