Re: OT...Whitehouse beer party?

nothermark wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jul 2009 14:54:48 -0500, Michael Dobony
<survey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On 26 Jul 2009 13:50:02 -0500, nothermark wrote:

On Sun, 26 Jul 2009 14:27:26 -0400, bill horne <redydog@xxxxxxx>
wrote:

Robert Bonomi wrote:
In article <2356eb90-39bd-44d2-b267-9ea72dc90a19@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
Hustlin' Hank <ninebal310@xxxxxxx> wrote:
On Jul 26, 11:59�am, "Frank Howell" <fphow...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

But he went off the deep end on his own property, in his own house. He was
harming no one. What was suppose to be an investigation to see if a burglery
was being committed, instead became a "pissing contest" on who is el effe.
The only reason the resident was "out of order" was due to the cops
insistence for him to be obsequious and compliant even after establishing
that no laws had been broken.

--
Frank
I am not sure how the laws read according to B&E, but if the fire
department is called to a business/residence in Ohio, they have the
right to enter your house to make sure there isn't any fire or
possible hazards. Not even the owner can stop them from entering. If
you try to stop them, you can be arrested. Also, if you try to enter
before they say it is ok to re-enter, you can be arrested. End of
story.
The law on B&E, or other 'possible' criminal actions, _is_ different.

Fire dept can do things like that for 'public safety' reasons, and the _immediate_threat_ of danger to life and limb.

Law enforcement can do the same, *WHEN* and only when ther is a similar
'reasonable belief' of such an immediate threat.

_ABSENT_ that immediate threat scenario -- such as when the 'burglar' has
identified himself _as_the_property_owner_ -- Law enforcement personnel
are (like _any_ other person) on the property only at the sufferance of the property owner. There is a presumption of permission to be on the
property, _UNTIL_ the point the property owner asks/demands that they leave.
Failure to do so, at that point, constitutes the crime of trespassing.

I will also note that there is a _major_ problem with the the arresting
officer's actions.

The "burglar" was arrested -- charged with 'resisting arrest' -- although those
charges were promptly dropped.
The "burglar" was not charged with 'resisting arrest' - he was charged and arrested for "disorderly conduct"

Now, for one to be engaged in 'resisting arrest', there must be an attempt to
arrest the person _already_in_progress_. So, the officer must have been in
the process of arresting the 'burglar' for _something_else_.

Strange, isn't it, that there is *no* evidence _whatsoever_ of any such
'underlying' charge?
He was arrested and charged with disorderly conduct.

_On_the_face_of_it_, that omission makes the sargent's actions suspect.
Either he had grounds for an 'original' arrest, and _failed_utterly_ to follow through on it, or 'resisting arrest' was 'manufactured' out of thin air.

From what I've seen, the officer, *TO*DATE*, has not put forward _any_
identification of the charge he was attempting to arrest for, when the
'resistance' occured.

This _ongoing_ omission, does tend to indicate -- *STRONGLY* so -- that
the 'truth of the matter' is that the officer got pissed because he was
not being shown the 'respect' he thought he was due, and 'acted badly'
as a result thereof.
It was the professor who got pissed and acted badly.

There is no doubt in my mind that race 'played a part' in the fracas.
_HOW_MUCH_, and on _who's_ part, is an entirely different question.
And _that_ I won't care to speculate on. :)
Race did play a part, and based on the available published information to date, it was Gates who was the racist.
I won't argue who was the racist. I will point out that the actions
of the officer fed the image. If he had backed off as soon as he saw
he was dealing with a not likely threat but a lot of pent up anger he
could have accomplished his mission and left an impression of
reasonable treatment.

The real issue is that there is no real need for the police to be the
Alpha dog all the time. They have lost sight of that fact. There are
other ways that are more effective if your real goal is getting the
bad guys and keeping the peace.
There was the report of two black men forcibly entering a home. Gates
admitted that he had to pressure a stuck door. Gates refused to present
identification proving he lived there. It is reasonable for an officer to
press this point to ensure that he did in fact live there. Getting
belligerent does not prove ownership. The police have a duty to reasonably
identify the person as the legal occupant of the house. Gates should be
thankful the police carried out that duty. Instead he demanded the police
neglect the safety of the property of the owner and leave without
reasonable proof of legal occupancy. He's black and a white officer has no
right to demand proof he is not a criminal after forcibly entering the
home? STUPID and BIGOTED!!


Per Boston Post:

"Friends of Gates

"Friends of Gates" will try to make him look like the injured party.

said he was already in his home when police arrived.
He showed his driver’s license and Harvard identification card, but
was handcuffed and taken into police custody for several hours last
Thursday, they said."

They lied. Gates showed an ID after first refusing to do so and AFTER accusing the officer of being a racist hassling a black person.

At the point he proved he lived there the officer should have backed
down. He chose not to and effectively escalated the situation.

According to witnesses, Gates was the one doing the hollering and labeling the cop as a racist. For what? Asking him for an ID?>

All the cop had to do when presented with the ID was say something
like "Sorry sir, I see everything is OK. I'm sorry you had a problem
and we disturbed you but you would not be happy we failed to check out
the call and it was somebody else in here."

Why couldn't Gates apologize for calling the cop a racist when he was simply doing his job?

Mission was accomplished so disengage and try to leave a nice feeling
behind. Instead he kept trying to get in charge and ended up with the
mess that happened.

Sounds to me like the mess wouldn't have happened if Gates had not vilified the cop for doing his job.

How many times does that happen and not make the
national news? And it is not just to Black folks.

No question many cops have a bullying attitude. Gates has a "victim of slavery" attitude and carries a big chip on his shoulder, just as Obama does.

You're rewriting the story to suit your agenda.

LZ
.

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